- The birthday bit has been clarified.
- It seems that it was, in fact, Reg Presley's
birthday when they all
- had lunch. But Reg completely forgot
this in between times, and
- forgot that they celebrated it. Maybe
that comes from singing
- "Wild Thing" a few times too
- Philip called him today, and when he
said it wasn't anyone's birthday,
- his wife, who was listening to the conversation
reminded him that it
- was his!!!
- So, the birthday bit is explained. And
I would like to formally
- issue an apology to Roger and Derrel
for suggesting that they made
- this up. Obviously they didn't. They
just got the wrong person's
The following note was received from Bob Shell
on Friday, 9-5-97:
- Earlier today I contacted Ray Santilli
and passed on to him the statement from Sims and Leir. I asked Ray to clear
up the confusion about just how they got the film and when. Here is Ray's
response, which, I think, should tie up any loose ends.
- -Bob Shell
- Dear Bob,
- Please feel free to circulate this.
- The story circulating that I gave film
material directly to Sims and Leir is not entirely correct. Earlier this
year I invited Reg Presley to my offices for lunch. When Reg arrived he
had with him both Darrell Sims and Mr Leir. I took them for a Chinese meal
during which Reg asked if I would provide film for the purposes of analysis
as he wished to have the results before his intended conference at Earls
Court in London.
- Obviously I do not carry the film with
me or keep it at the office therefore I was unable to give them film during
this meeting. In saying that I promised to supply a few frames. Some days
later (not sure when) I met Philip Mantel for lunch and provided him with
a few frames to pass on to Reg. I assume Reg passed the film onto Darrell
which is fine by me.
- There also seems to be a misunderstanding
regarding whether the meeting with Reg was on my birthday. One birthday
a year is already one too much, I'm getting old and my hair is falling
out. Why would I want two a year?
- My one birthday is at the end of September.
Statement From Bob Schell, 9-5-97.
Since my earlier posts have been put up on your site, I thought you might
like an update.
- Regarding whether Ray Santilli did or
did not personally give any film to Derrel Sims and Roger Leir: Ray says
he did not. He says he gave film to Philip Mantle to pass to Reg Presley,
and that Reg was to have it analyzed. When I asked Ray about Sims and Leir,
he did not know who I was talking about. It was only when Reg's name came
up that he remembered the two fellows who had come to lunch with Reg.
- Ray Santilli's birthday is September
30, as I have known and observed for three years now. Perhaps something
was being celebrated that day, but it was not Ray's birthday. Perhaps it
was the birthday of someone else in Ray's office.
- I have no interest at all in starting
a war of words with Derrel and Roger. I've never met Derrel. I met Roger
Leir once and liked him, and had the impression that he knew what he was
talking about. My only interest in this matter is getting at the truth,
and the truth is not as it was originally presented in this matter.
- The film which was given to Sims and
Leir is copy film from the same strip that my samples came from, and from
the same strip that Philip Mantle's and Bob Kiviat's samples came from.
It is not camera original film, so analysis of it is futile.
- Ray has asked me to get the film back
for him, since he considers that it was not handled as he believed it would
be, but neither Derrel nor Roger has responded to my private messages to
them asking for the film sample's return.
- This is the truth, to the best of my
- Bob Shell
Statement From Derrel Sims and Dr. Roger Leir On 9-2-97
- Both Derrel and I will simply restate
the facts of this issue as we both
- experienced them:
- 1. The four frames of the Alien Autopsy
Film given to us personally by Mr.
- Ray Santilli were represented to us to
be from the real and original film.
- Those frames are now being analyzed per
our committment to Mr. Santilli.
- We hope that Mr. Santilli does not think
we would expend energy and funds
- analyzing non-original film. If that
is the case, we have not been treated
- with integrity.
- 2. Bob Schell has stated that the luncheon
we had with Mr. Santilli did
- not take place on his birthday. We find
this doubly bizarre because part
- of his staff was present at the lunch
and purchased the champagne used to
- toast the occasion.
- We certainly hope Mr. Santilli is not
in the habit of celebrating fake
- birthdays...or handing out fake film.
- Derrel Sims
- Dr. Roger K. Leir
The following email was sent from researcher
Bob Schell to Stig Agermose on 8-31-97:
- As they say, this is not exactly the
- On the program, Roger Leir said that
he and Derrel Sims had met with Ray earlier this year on Ray's birthday
- Ray's birthday is on September 30th.
- He said that Ray had given them four
frames of the film. Well, not exactly. Ray only vaguely remembers Leir
and Sims, who came to lunch in the company of Reg Presley. No film was
given to anyone at that time.
- Later, Ray gave four frames of film from
the same strip that Philip Mantle and I already had and from an American
football game from the "junk reel" to Philip Mantle who was to
pass them to Reg Presley. Reg had requested them for his own study, according
- When I sent Ray copies of Dr. Leir's
statement from the radio broadcast, he asked me to get the film back from
Leir and Sims. I have sent a message to Leir and Sims asking that the film
either be returned to Ray or sent to me for return to Ray.
- Ray is very upset with this whole publicity
grab by Leir and Sims.
- The film is the same useless film that
Philip and I have had for ages, and Philip has already had a sample tested.
Since it is copy film, not camera original, and since it can't be proved
to be from the actual autopsy footage, it can prove nothing to study it
any further. If there was any point at all in further study, I would have
- Bob Shell
From Robert Gates
Last night I posted the truth, to the best of my knowledge, about this
- All of the film that Ray has passed on
to anyone for study has been pieces of copy film, and not demonstrably
from the actual autopsy sequence, and therefore useless.
- I have reached the conclusion, which
I have passed on to Ray and he has not disputed, that Ray and his associates
do not now have any camera original film. I do not know if they ever had
or saw any.
The Report As Originally Posted
In a major new development, British entertainment entrepreneur, Ray Santilli,
has reportedly given over four frames of his now legendary Alien Autopsy
film for scientific analysis which could establish the best evidence yet
for the film's authenticity.
- This exclusive news was revealed on Jeff
Rense's Sightings radio program on Thursday, August 14, during the show's
third hour interview with Dr. Roger K. Leir, a MUFON Assistant Section
Director and frequent guest on the program. (The program may be heard via
the AudioNet Archives and can be accessed from the top of the Sightings
- Both skeptics and supporters of the film's
authenticity have been engaged in heated debate over Mr. Santilli's heretofore
refusal to provide samples of the film for official scientific analysis
and potential authentication. Doubters and skeptics have maintained that
if the film were authentic, and Mr. Santilli knew it to be so, he would
have long ago provided the tiny amount of original film necessary to validate
its age and pedigree. Many skeptics have pointed out that all Santilli
actually needed to provide would be a small hole punch from a single frame
of film, and that since he has always refused, the film must be a fraud.
- In his broadcast conversation with Dr.
Leir, Rense mentioned that Mr. Santilli has thus far not agreed to provide
that much discussed hole punch of even a single frame of the Alien Autopsy
film for analysis to which Dr. Leir replied that he, Santilli, has indeed
now finally done.
- According to Dr. Leir, he and his colleague
Derrel Sims, the "Alien Hunter" UFO investigator from Houston,
were recently invited to lunch with Ray Santilli who discussed with them
a number of issues about the Alien Autopsy film and its history of public
exposure since he first acquired it. Leir stated that Santilli indicated
major unhappiness and disappointment over how the film's release has been
received, and, furthermore, expressed great disappointment and frustration
with the entire process of exposing it to the general public.
- Dr. Leir revealed to Rense that Ray Santilli
then passed into their possession 4 frames of the original film on the
strict and absolute condition that it be thoroughly analysed by the best
appropriate scientific experts and that the results of the analysis of
the film and any remainder of the four frames themselves be returned to
him without public disclosure of the results; that he, Santilli, would
decide if, how, and when those results will be made public. Leir and Sims
- Dr. Leir stated to Rense that the analysis
and evaluation will be performed by the best scientific and technical experts
in the film industry and the results will be sent directly, without public
comment, to Ray Santilli per the agreed upon conditions. Rense further
inquired of Dr. Leir why Santilli he has never come forward himself and
offered a sample of the original film for analysis. Leir stated Santilli
explained that if had he done so this long after the film's release, he
would no doubt become the center of a new controversy over his timing and
would probably be accused of media manipulation and charges of hoax...allegations
he has no desire to experience.
- Derrel Sims and Dr. Roger Leir most recently
made international news in Roswell, N.M. on July 4, when they presented
a piece of debris reputed to be from the original crash of an alien craft
near Roswell in 1947. Extensive scientific analysis of the artifact was
presented by Dr. Russell Vernon-Clark at the news conference who is of
the opinion, due to is isotopic ratios, that it is of ET origin. Dr. Leir
and Derrel Sims are also well known as having been the first to collaborate
on the successful surgical removal of alleged alien implants from several
individuals with long histories of abduction experience. The items removed
are continuing to undergo rigorous scientifc analysis with the published
results to date pointing toward highly unusual configuration and compostion
said unlikely to be of earthly manufacture.