Santilli Speaks About
Sims-Leir Autopsy Film Flap
Shell Apologizes To Sims and Leir Over Birthday Issue

The birthday bit has been clarified.
It seems that it was, in fact, Reg Presley's birthday when they all
had lunch. But Reg completely forgot this in between times, and
forgot that they celebrated it. Maybe that comes from singing
"Wild Thing" a few times too often <G>!
Philip called him today, and when he said it wasn't anyone's birthday,
his wife, who was listening to the conversation reminded him that it
was his!!!
So, the birthday bit is explained. And I would like to formally
issue an apology to Roger and Derrel for suggesting that they made
this up. Obviously they didn't. They just got the wrong person's

The following note was received from Bob Shell
on Friday, 9-5-97:
Earlier today I contacted Ray Santilli and passed on to him the statement from Sims and Leir. I asked Ray to clear up the confusion about just how they got the film and when. Here is Ray's response, which, I think, should tie up any loose ends.
-Bob Shell
Dear Bob,
Please feel free to circulate this.
The story circulating that I gave film material directly to Sims and Leir is not entirely correct. Earlier this year I invited Reg Presley to my offices for lunch. When Reg arrived he had with him both Darrell Sims and Mr Leir. I took them for a Chinese meal during which Reg asked if I would provide film for the purposes of analysis as he wished to have the results before his intended conference at Earls Court in London.
Obviously I do not carry the film with me or keep it at the office therefore I was unable to give them film during this meeting. In saying that I promised to supply a few frames. Some days later (not sure when) I met Philip Mantel for lunch and provided him with a few frames to pass on to Reg. I assume Reg passed the film onto Darrell which is fine by me.
There also seems to be a misunderstanding regarding whether the meeting with Reg was on my birthday. One birthday a year is already one too much, I'm getting old and my hair is falling out. Why would I want two a year?
My one birthday is at the end of September.

Statement From Bob Schell, 9-5-97.

Since my earlier posts have been put up on your site, I thought you might like an update.
Regarding whether Ray Santilli did or did not personally give any film to Derrel Sims and Roger Leir: Ray says he did not. He says he gave film to Philip Mantle to pass to Reg Presley, and that Reg was to have it analyzed. When I asked Ray about Sims and Leir, he did not know who I was talking about. It was only when Reg's name came up that he remembered the two fellows who had come to lunch with Reg.
Ray Santilli's birthday is September 30, as I have known and observed for three years now. Perhaps something was being celebrated that day, but it was not Ray's birthday. Perhaps it was the birthday of someone else in Ray's office.
I have no interest at all in starting a war of words with Derrel and Roger. I've never met Derrel. I met Roger Leir once and liked him, and had the impression that he knew what he was talking about. My only interest in this matter is getting at the truth, and the truth is not as it was originally presented in this matter.
The film which was given to Sims and Leir is copy film from the same strip that my samples came from, and from the same strip that Philip Mantle's and Bob Kiviat's samples came from. It is not camera original film, so analysis of it is futile.
Ray has asked me to get the film back for him, since he considers that it was not handled as he believed it would be, but neither Derrel nor Roger has responded to my private messages to them asking for the film sample's return.
This is the truth, to the best of my knowledge.
Bob Shell

Statement From Derrel Sims and Dr. Roger Leir On 9-2-97
Both Derrel and I will simply restate the facts of this issue as we both
experienced them:
1. The four frames of the Alien Autopsy Film given to us personally by Mr.
Ray Santilli were represented to us to be from the real and original film.
Those frames are now being analyzed per our committment to Mr. Santilli.
We hope that Mr. Santilli does not think we would expend energy and funds
analyzing non-original film. If that is the case, we have not been treated
with integrity.
2. Bob Schell has stated that the luncheon we had with Mr. Santilli did
not take place on his birthday. We find this doubly bizarre because part
of his staff was present at the lunch and purchased the champagne used to
toast the occasion.
We certainly hope Mr. Santilli is not in the habit of celebrating fake
birthdays...or handing out fake film.
Derrel Sims
Dr. Roger K. Leir

The following email was sent from researcher
Bob Schell to Stig Agermose on 8-31-97:
As they say, this is not exactly the news.
On the program, Roger Leir said that he and Derrel Sims had met with Ray earlier this year on Ray's birthday in London.
Ray's birthday is on September 30th.
He said that Ray had given them four frames of the film. Well, not exactly. Ray only vaguely remembers Leir and Sims, who came to lunch in the company of Reg Presley. No film was given to anyone at that time.
Later, Ray gave four frames of film from the same strip that Philip Mantle and I already had and from an American football game from the "junk reel" to Philip Mantle who was to pass them to Reg Presley. Reg had requested them for his own study, according to Ray.
When I sent Ray copies of Dr. Leir's statement from the radio broadcast, he asked me to get the film back from Leir and Sims. I have sent a message to Leir and Sims asking that the film either be returned to Ray or sent to me for return to Ray.
Ray is very upset with this whole publicity grab by Leir and Sims.
The film is the same useless film that Philip and I have had for ages, and Philip has already had a sample tested. Since it is copy film, not camera original, and since it can't be proved to be from the actual autopsy footage, it can prove nothing to study it any further. If there was any point at all in further study, I would have done it.
Bob Shell

From Robert Gates

Last night I posted the truth, to the best of my knowledge, about this silliness.
All of the film that Ray has passed on to anyone for study has been pieces of copy film, and not demonstrably from the actual autopsy sequence, and therefore useless.
I have reached the conclusion, which I have passed on to Ray and he has not disputed, that Ray and his associates do not now have any camera original film. I do not know if they ever had or saw any.

The Report As Originally Posted

In a major new development, British entertainment entrepreneur, Ray Santilli, has reportedly given over four frames of his now legendary Alien Autopsy film for scientific analysis which could establish the best evidence yet for the film's authenticity.
This exclusive news was revealed on Jeff Rense's Sightings radio program on Thursday, August 14, during the show's third hour interview with Dr. Roger K. Leir, a MUFON Assistant Section Director and frequent guest on the program. (The program may be heard via the AudioNet Archives and can be accessed from the top of the Sightings website homepage.)
Both skeptics and supporters of the film's authenticity have been engaged in heated debate over Mr. Santilli's heretofore refusal to provide samples of the film for official scientific analysis and potential authentication. Doubters and skeptics have maintained that if the film were authentic, and Mr. Santilli knew it to be so, he would have long ago provided the tiny amount of original film necessary to validate its age and pedigree. Many skeptics have pointed out that all Santilli actually needed to provide would be a small hole punch from a single frame of film, and that since he has always refused, the film must be a fraud.
In his broadcast conversation with Dr. Leir, Rense mentioned that Mr. Santilli has thus far not agreed to provide that much discussed hole punch of even a single frame of the Alien Autopsy film for analysis to which Dr. Leir replied that he, Santilli, has indeed now finally done.
According to Dr. Leir, he and his colleague Derrel Sims, the "Alien Hunter" UFO investigator from Houston, were recently invited to lunch with Ray Santilli who discussed with them a number of issues about the Alien Autopsy film and its history of public exposure since he first acquired it. Leir stated that Santilli indicated major unhappiness and disappointment over how the film's release has been received, and, furthermore, expressed great disappointment and frustration with the entire process of exposing it to the general public.
Dr. Leir revealed to Rense that Ray Santilli then passed into their possession 4 frames of the original film on the strict and absolute condition that it be thoroughly analysed by the best appropriate scientific experts and that the results of the analysis of the film and any remainder of the four frames themselves be returned to him without public disclosure of the results; that he, Santilli, would decide if, how, and when those results will be made public. Leir and Sims agreed.
Dr. Leir stated to Rense that the analysis and evaluation will be performed by the best scientific and technical experts in the film industry and the results will be sent directly, without public comment, to Ray Santilli per the agreed upon conditions. Rense further inquired of Dr. Leir why Santilli he has never come forward himself and offered a sample of the original film for analysis. Leir stated Santilli explained that if had he done so this long after the film's release, he would no doubt become the center of a new controversy over his timing and would probably be accused of media manipulation and charges of hoax...allegations he has no desire to experience.
Derrel Sims and Dr. Roger Leir most recently made international news in Roswell, N.M. on July 4, when they presented a piece of debris reputed to be from the original crash of an alien craft near Roswell in 1947. Extensive scientific analysis of the artifact was presented by Dr. Russell Vernon-Clark at the news conference who is of the opinion, due to is isotopic ratios, that it is of ET origin. Dr. Leir and Derrel Sims are also well known as having been the first to collaborate on the successful surgical removal of alleged alien implants from several individuals with long histories of abduction experience. The items removed are continuing to undergo rigorous scientifc analysis with the published results to date pointing toward highly unusual configuration and compostion said unlikely to be of earthly manufacture.

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