Roswell Revelation!
Interview With Authors Of
By Kenny Young <>
Note - Our personal thanks to Kenny Young for permission to post his outstanding interview on this site.
The first anyone has heard of Larry Rogers and Curt Robinson was from a fleeting newspaper article announcing that they had an incredible secret to tell.
The article, which appeared during the 50th year anniversary festivities of the Roswell Incident, was seen in the July 6, 1997 edition of The Cincinnati Enquirer. Courtesy of columnist Jim Knippenberg, the brief report told of two Cincinnati-based engineers who had a most remarkable discovery to announce to the world: the REAL truth behind the famous Roswell Incident.
Since that time, little has been heard of Larry and Curt. Sure, they have been contacted by numerous researchers eager for a morsel of what they claim to have, vying for a tantalizing tidbit of their truths. But they have not talked.
Both Larry and Curt have been busily researching Roswell, making preparations for the stunning disclosures they promise to reveal in 'Ice Man Down.' Their research is secretive, unnoticed. They have spent many hours quietly conducting library investigations, they have repeatedly traveled from Cincinnati, Ohio to Roswell, New Mexico.
Their lips have been sealed... until now.
The twosome, declaring a stunning revelation to end the mystery surrounding an alleged crash and secretive military recovery of a Flying Saucer in Roswell, New Mexico of 1947, now announce that they have completed all of their preparations to launch the book which they co-author, 'Ice Man Down.'
Larry Rogers is from Terre Haute, Indiana, born in 1950 and graduated from college in '72 with a degree in electrical engineering. Curt Robinson is from Michigan, born in 1946 and has a degree in engineering from Michigan State University. He has been married for 30 years with 4 children.
The interview takes place in the third-floor suite of an office complex in Blue Ash, Ohio on October 8, 1998. Also present for the interview is Chris Coffey and her fiancee Danny Russell. Aside from being a close friend and fellow investigator, Chris was also a personal secretary to the late UFO researcher Leonard Stringfield, whose early research laid the groundwork for the 'crashed saucer' lore and The Roswell Incident.
KENNY YOUNG: Tell us about your interest in the Roswell Incident and how you became involved with this drama.
CURT ROBINSON: My prior interest came from the standpoint of having read a book about it. I found it an interesting subject. Anything that's scientific in nature and theory I have an interest in. You should see my library. It seemed like that Roswell book had a lot of factual data, so that's why I bought it. One day we began talking about Roswell -- what happened there -- what we thought might have happened there.
Anyhow, I was planning a family vacation to Costa Rica. I asked Larry to come along. But the subject of Roswell began to dominate the discussion. We each started reading anything we could find on the topic. It finally got to the point one day where Larry just said Let's just go to Roswell and see what it's like. Just to say we've been there, walk on the soil... Breath the air they breathed... So we scrapped the Costa Rica vacation idea and went to Roswell. The kids were disappointed, but on we went. That's how it started.
KY: So once out there you stumbled onto something.
LARRY ROGERS: Not the first time. On the first trip back in 1996, we came away from there wondering 'what the heck is all this about?' because it wasn't what we had expected. You've seen the stuff on TV shows and read the books about the crash site and how you can tour crash sites, right? Well, we go out there and drive into downtown Roswell and there is the UFO museum, just as we expected. At that time, we had no idea of writing a book -- never thought of it. We weren't writers, obviously, but we were curious -- how could there be more than one crash site? In fact, we came back from Roswell confused.
LR: We were humored by things like the dueling museums each having their own crash site. We thought we would get up to the Ragsdale crash site and there would be a popcorn stand up there and the FBI would be selling hot-dogs. It was hard to take much of this seriously on that first trip. We were both disappointed and confused. This was a case of coming back from all the disillusionment and going back to the books, asking 'how does this guy come to this conclusion while this other guy over here is going down this track? And the interesting thing about it is they trash each other... it was a real mess out there. We started to see new things the second time around. We decided to set up a spreadsheet and put each of these in a computer database. We wanted to see if there was some pattern to the way one writer would draw one conclusion, while another writer uses the same witnesses and goes off in a totally different direction.
In about October of 1996 we had decided to go back, because we had wanted to see the crash site where the owner would take you out on the land. We found it too coincidental that the one museum sends its customers to a crash site located in a national forest where there is no issue with a land owner -- that was a little too commercial for us. We wanted to see both sides of the story. So on that second trip we called the owners of the crash site referenced in the Randle and Schmidt books -- Hub and Shiela Corn. The site is located about seven miles off of Route 285, north of Roswell.
CR: And in the meantime we had already started quite a bit of research, some out of curiosity, trying to follow-up and figure out what was wrong with this whole picture.
LR: We began that trip at the University of New Mexico map center. We thought it would be cool to get some contour maps of various areas so we could take notes on where we had been and what we had seen. We went to the Engineering building where a real surprise hit us. The name of the map center...
CR: MAGIC. It stands for Meteorological and Geological Information Center. Right above the door, real big letters. We got a chuckle out of that.
LR: We spent a whole day there copying maps. At the end of the day, we rolled them all up, put them into two large tubes, and left. We spent that night in Albuquerque. Then we met Shiela Corn, she took us several miles to the crash-site, where we could immediately recognize the huge basin that has been a part of many television programs. There's a marked trail with stakes and rope all along it to keep people on the trail. Up on the rocky wall at the far end of the basin, they have placed small American flags. This is supposedly where the aliens died.
KY: Is there one site everyone agrees on?
CR: Yes, everyone agrees that something happened at the Corona debris field. It's just a matter of WHAT happened there. You have that site, the Corn Ranch site (Randle and Schmidt) which is 35-miles southeast, and the Capitan Mountain (Ragsdale/museum) site, which is essentially southwest of the Corona debris field, roughly 25 miles.
CHRIS COFFEY: Do you make a correlation between these sites?
CR: Yes. Socorrow and the Plains of St. Augustin -- they both sit on the 34th parallel latitude. They are almost on the exact same line as Corona. So, we're looking at many debris fields and many different theories. Some say two objects collided, going down in different places. That's what is so confusing to us. How can you have all of these so-called true stories that are so different?
CC: With differing dates and the number of bodies...
CR: The number of bodies vary, but we're not talking about bodies here. We're looking at where this thing happened, that's the part that blows your mind. How can all this be? How could Barney Barnett say that he saw this at a certain time over there and Ragsdale with Trudy in the back of a pickup truck see something someplace else? Something has got to be wrong here... unless we had a whole series of UFOs all run into trouble, crashing all over the place.
LR: Instead of just picking up one book, we reviewed many. They all say different things, one guy says not to believe what the other guy says. We started wondering: why would Barnett lie? Why would Ragsdale lie? And we began wondering...
CR: What if they are ALL telling the truth? We have these camps, the Corn Ranch camp with Schmidt and Randle, and the San Augustin Camp with Friedman, and you have the Ragsdale Camp... what if they are all telling the truth? Is that possible? And we're not just talking locations, we're talking what they saw.
KY: So you had the locations, the general layout of different stories. What enabled you to connect these elements and draw a larger picture?
LR: The thing that stood out was how none of these witnesses profited from their testimony. I don't think Ragsdale lied, I don't think Mac Brazel lied about Corona, I don't think Barney Barnett lied about the Plains of San Augustin, and I really don't think the people at the Air Force Base lied about what they saw. I don't think you have any liars here, because nobody profited. There's no motive to lie...
CR: That's probably how we were able to solve it -- by assuming that the people closest to the events were not lying, but were in fact telling the truth. We didn't belong to any camp. We looked at this from a purely scientific standpoint, from a factual standpoint. And when you ask how they could all be telling the truth, then your mind begins to work. Then you can make some ground when you forget about what side you're on. When Larry and I are done here, we'll have a whole lot of people going down the right track, and that's scary for some people.
LR: What he's eluding to is a lot of continuous disinformation out there. There are some liars out there now. But if you take the original people who were interviewed then, I don't think any of them are lying.
CC: Do you think it's extraterrestrial?
CR: Something definitely crashed. There's no doubt about that. There is a little bit for everybody in this story. While researching this story, we had a lot of strange things happen to us, things that were somewhat unexplainable. Those strange things seemed to be leading us.
LR: So anyhow, we were driving up the side of a mountain. Understand that this part of New Mexico is totally flat except for about two spots, one of them is a mountain range around Albuquerque. In the southern part of the state there is one bump, and you can see that for miles, it is Capitan Mountain, the Ragsdale crash site. After talking with Shiela that morning, we were impressed that we had finally seen the crash site.
CR: We thought we were in a position where we could zero in, but we wanted to give the Ragsdale site one last look.
LR: We wanted to take some measurements -- prove to ourselves that Ragsdale must have seen something else, the crash couldn't have happened there.
CR: We had gone through a whole series of mathematical computations. We were trying to explain this from a scientific standpoint, to determine how an event could occur at the Ragsdale site and so forth. Right now, we're beginning to think that there may not be much merit to the Ragsdale site - at least from the standpoint of the UFO crash.
LR: So we're way out there in this 4-wheel drive jeep going up the side of this mountain on a two-track dirt road hoping we don't meet someone coming along in the opposite direction. Then, all of a sudden, Curt slams on the brakes. It's straight down one way and straight up the other way, nothing but scrubby brush everywhere you look. He throws the door open, gets out and starts up through the brush. I'm sitting there in the passenger's seat wondering what did I miss?
CR: It was colder than hell, too.
LR: So he starts hollering at me, so I get out and start looking for him. I finally found him, and it really was pretty amazing. We were looking at each other and saying this is really bizarre.
CC: Did you actually see something?
LR: We brought it back to Cincinnati.
CC: But how did you know to find it there?
CR: I was just driving along, stopped and I looked. Jumped out of the vehicle, left the door open. It's just one of those mysterious things.
LR: Something just caught his eye.
CR: Honest to goodness. I just felt like I had to get out of the vehicle and there it was. It was about 50-feet from the road.
LR: When you think about the scrubby pinion pines and brush and all that kind of stuff. To be honest with you, if I were standing there and somebody had said that there was something really bizarre within 20 feet of me, I would have never seen it. You would just have to look at it in the right way, and (LR slaps his forehead) it all comes to you.
CR: It was a sign, that's what it was. It was a sign, so we continued on up the mountain.
KY: So you retrieved a physical artifact?
CR: Something.
KY: Was this something man-made?
CR: Yes.
KY: If I poked at you for details, would you be responsive?
CR: We wouldn't tell you. Not right now.
LR: It's material to this whole thing. It definitely fits. I will tell you what some of the other artifacts that we brought back were.
CC: Did you know when you saw this artifact, though, that it would have some impact on what we have been fed and told all along?
LR: Yes, it definitely fits. There's so much that happened this one day that by the end of the day I was sitting in a restaurant shaking.
CR: He was shaking. He was absolutely shaken. He was so scared, but I wanted to go back, because while we were up there, we found something REALLY bizarre. I wanted to go back that night, but Larry said: "There's no way you're going to get me to go back there."
LR: So the weirdness went on. We go on up to the rock, and you have to understand that the way you recognize the Ragsdale site is by this unique rock there with a crack through it. We spent about an hour at this one site picking up stuff and throwing it in the back of our jeep. We then go on up the side of a mountain and try to remember where this rock is. The first time, we had a countour map that showed us where this rock was and it still took us an hour to find it. You have to be looking right at it to see it.
CR: We're talking about the side of a mountain with this countour map and we kept going in and out trying to find it for over an hour, so it was remarkable that we found the rock. Most people don't find it.
LR: So we go on back up to the site, and we're still fumbling around although we've already been there once looking for it. We finally find it and we use the rock as our centerpoint. I had a notepad with me and Curt had a notebook with him. We sit on the rock and discuss what we're going to do there -- about taking some measurements, compass bearings, or whatever. Suddenly, we hear this noise. There is a rustling sound coming from the brush. At first, we thought it must have been a BIG animal.
CR: You can't see real well in there, because of the brushy growth.
LR: Then out of nowhere here comes this guy -- hiking real fast, jogging right up to us, holding a Jim Ragsdale book like the one we had purchased on our first visit to the museum. He says: "Aha, so zis must be ze place! I zee vee zeek ze zame zing!"
CR: Can you believe this? Now this guy has this book open, a Jim Ragsdale book, and he's running. He comes running up through the trees and we're standing there looking at him.
LR: Remember, we told you that this place is hard to find, so this guy, we assume, must have been looking for it for quite a while. He comes up to it, takes a peek at it, and (LR snaps his finger) out of there he goes.
CC: Did he come from Germany?
LR: Yes, he was German.
CR: Here this guy drives a minimum of 50-miles from Roswell on this 4-wheel-drive road and suddenly leaves after 5-minutes. He disappears. He didn't even stay.
LR: So we went on and spent a couple of hours up there, at the end of our day, we find him parked nearby in a white Buick. Why would he come all the way out there, 53-miles, walk through all this brush to find this rock, look at it for a few seconds, then go back and sit in his car for two hours?
So at that point in time, we worked away from the rock. Based upon what we've read concerning Ragsdale, we were thinking that most likely this is not the real site. But, we wanted to prove it for ourselves. Curt is thinking that if anything really did happen at this site in 1947, knowing how hard it would be to get it all cleaned up, any evidence would not be found way up at the site - it was just too high up. The event occurred 50-years ago. Whatever was left behind would be washed down the side of the mountain by now. So, we decided that our best chance of finding stuff would be to start working our way down the mountain, examining the stream beds and kicking rocks over to see what, if anything, might be wedged between or under the rocks. So we work our way down a little bit. We use our hands to check under these things. It looks like a moonscape up there -- many huge boulders. We get our hands down into the loose soil and leaves and pine needles to see if there was anything down in there. Suddenly there is something. What is that?
We come out with a crumpled up mess of... well, something or another, and we're knocking the leaves and sediment off of it. There is some small printing on it -- and what do you suppose it is? It was a very old decayed C-ration wrapper. There were several of them, actually.
KY: What do you believe is the significance of finding C-ration wrappers at this location?
CR: It told us that somebody had used military C-rations there. We thought it quite interesting that we found it there. We found some them at locations up near the rock, too.
LR: So, picture this. I'm standing there scratching my head over this find. I head back to the rock to get my note pad and start taking some notes.
CR: Now, understand that this is the Ragsdale crash site, the site that the larger UFO Museum claims to be the site of the crash. We were asking each other why we are finding this stuff here?
LR: Why hadn't the museum people been out here to look around? To us, it looked as if we were two of only a very few people who had found the place.
CR: They didn't bother to go out and look.
LR: If they were so proud of this site, you'd think they would've had all this stuff hanging on their wall. This stuff points directly to some possibility of a military encampment or operation here many years ago.
KY: Now again, you're talking about the Ragsdale site. Hasn't the Ragsdale account been discredited?
LR: In their later books, Randle and Schmidt have discredited the account. The museum people will tell you that this is the real crash site. It just happens to be on Federal property, where there is no issue concerning who holds the rights to take tours. So anyway, I go back there, and I sit down on a smaller rock next to the big rock. I am taking some notes while Curt is taking measurements and looking at compass bearings -- we were trying to determine where northwest was. I am in somewhat deep thought, sort of day dreaming, when I notice something lying on the ground not more that five feet away. I don't believe this, I think to myself.
This large rock has a curved shape at its very bottom. I see a shiny object back up under the edge of the rock, just where it meets the ground. I holler for Curt, to tell him to come and look at what I had found. I pick this thing up. I have it in my hand and tell Curt You're not going to believe what I found under that rock. I open my hand to show it to him, and he says I'll be damned. Where did you find that? I take him back and point to where I found it. I kneel down, and point to the exact spot. Amazed, he says Well there's another one.
CC: Could this stuff have been planted?
LR: Well, we wondered the same thing. It certainly appeared old, although we found it in plain sight. It was just located in place that you would not normally look. Remember, I was taking notes. I was in one of those trances you get into when trying to put down in words something that is not easy to explain. The only reason that I noticed it was because my stare happened to be in the right direction. Remember that first thing we found while driving up? We could tell that thing had interacted with nature over a number of years. We know it could not have been planted, at least if it was, it happened many, many years ago. There was a lot of decay involved. The second things we found could have been planted, I suppose, but I don't know why anybody would do that.
CR: You wouldn't plant the things we found. They don't fit the story in such a way that it would make sense to plant them.
LR: To us there was no apparent connection to the story, except for one bizarre twist that occurred to me over dinner, later that night. That was the point at which I got a bit shook up. Let's just say there would be NO WAY that THAT belonged there.
CR: About that time, we find something else. I'm not going to tell you what we found, only because right now, it's best we not. If people knew about it, there might well be a stampede up there. All we will say is that while we were there, we made a new discovery...
LR: We were walking back toward the road, ready to leave.
CR: It was quite bizarre. I wanted to go back, later that night, under the cover of darkness. It was wild.
LR: We drove into Roswell, and it was pretty late. We went to a nice steak house in Roswell. I think it was around 10 o'clock. I was ready to have this day be over, but as we always do at the end of a day like that, Curt and I were discussing the artifacts we had brought back. I thought perhaps we should turn over one thing in particular to the local law enforcement authorities.
CR: We won't tell you what it was, but Larry thought the right thing to do would be to turn it in.
CC: Turn it in for what reason?
CR: We're not going in that direction, period. We can't tell you.
LR: I just felt like we shouldn't have left the state of New Mexico with this in our possession. I really wanted to get rid of it... I just didn't want to have it.
CR: He was chicken, that's what it was all about. Then we found something else up there, a couple of things up there, before we left.
LR: Don't call me chicken. You were wanting to go back and here I'm wanting to go to the police and turn this stuff in... I was really a basket case.
CR: When we get to the site, strange things start happening to us. All of the strange things which happen fit into the overall mystery, so to speak, but only Larry and I know that as we sit in this room. It fits into the mystery -but has nothing to do with the mystery- yet IS part of the mystery.
LR: As we sat there in the restaurant at the end of the day, we didn't see things as we do now. After we reflected upon it, we began putting things into perspective.
CC: You had made a comment to us once that this case will one day be included in history books.
CR: Yes, it could change history as we know it.
LR: As far as what becomes history, let me tell you about a similar situation concerning a man by the name of Paul Brown, who writes on-record that, while a patient in a military hospital, he witnessed the tearing-off of the front-pages of The Honolulu Advertiser on Saturday, November 30, 1941. He happened to acquire one of those front pages, and included it in a letter to his parents. Of interest is the headline: it said 'JAPS MAY ATTACK OVER THE WEEKEND.' The U.S. Military ordered all of the front pages of this day's newspaper torn off, but did nothing to increase the security of the base. Some twenty years later, Brown is going through his deceased mother's belongings, and finds that she had kept all the letters that he had sent home during the war. He wonders about that newspaper. He finds it. It turns out to be one of only two original copies now in existence. The other belongs to the archives of the State of Hawaii. Does this event re-write history books?
CR: You don't see history books re-written right now, do you? Let's put it this way... if you or I were writing the history books, they would be changed. How's that?
LR: That story I just related to you is true. It has changed the way I think about 1941. Now, have I read in history books that the United States government was looking for a reason to get into The War? No. Public opinion must be positive about it, the leaders felt. What better way than to be attacked? We basically had big signs that said 'drop your bombs here.' Oh, by the way, some darned reporter had to find out about it, so darn him, we had to tear off the front pages of his newspaper.
CC: Could you see a similarity in the way history presently views Pearl Harbor and how we will one day think of Roswell?
LR: Even after fifty years, things can happen that really change the way you look at certain events.
CR: Yeah, you can certainly change history as what is fact... if you care to believe it. In order to write a history book, all you have to do to write it is to believe it.
KY: Are your findings factually based or subject to interpretation? Will your readers come away knowing for sure that your findings are in order?
LR: There is a lot of history in our book. A lot of documented history, and here again, based upon the person that believes history, I guess, the reader will find the book extremely factual.
CR: We haven't been able to disprove anything we present, how's that?
CC: How will you feel after the book has been reviewed, and you are confronted for this evidence. Are you going to be forthcoming with your findings?
CR: Once the book comes out, we'll not hold back any punches. We'll say: There it is. There you go. Is it history or isnt' it? You'll have to decide.
KY: Let's address the weather balloon story. Are you comfortable that this explanation was or was not satisfactory.
LR: Oh, it's all a cover story. It's all a cover story.
CR: So was Project Mogul. That's a cover story. The crash dummies and Case Closed, that's all a cover.
KY: Any comments on Lt. Col. Phillip Corso and his sworn affidavit?
CR: Well, he passed away. He was entertaining. When you bought his book, you spent your money and got something entertaining to read. He does have some historical data in his book, that is positive.
CC: Did you have any reservations about coming out with this story, either out of fear or obligation?
CR: I am not 100% sure that any of us really NEED to know what REALLY happened at Roswell. We're not sure that people should really know that. The more we researched, the bigger Roswell got. We couldn't find the edges, as if it were a puzzle that kept getting bigger. We think we solved the mystery. We found something.
CC: Will this damage the reputations of historical figures? Such as General Ramey?
CR: If Ramey said it was a weather balloon, and we say it wasn't a weather balloon, does that damage him? Sure it does.
LR: If you were to ask me if General Ramey KNEW it wasn't a weather balloon when it WAS a weather balloon...? Remember the saying: I did NOT have sexual relations with that woman - Will this be the first time in history that a leader has lied to those he leads? No way.
CC: Do you feel there are people out there now that currently know the truth?
CR: Yes. There are people out there that know what we know. Those who know are not like Larry and I, they were most probably involved with this incident to a certain extent.
CC: Have you ever felt any concern for your well-being while you conducting this investigation?
LR: I'm not concerned about it at all. There was that one weird day, I was a little emotional that day. But I don't worry about it.
CR: There's too many people that know that Larry and I worked on this. We're not going to be on some people's "best list." These are sensitive findings.
KY: What about the alleged retrieval of a 'corpse' or two from the Roswell incident? How do your findings stand to effect the people who believe alien corpse's were retrieved?
LR: We don't contradict any testimony. We find nothing to prove that any person was lying.
CR: Only Glenn Dennis knows whether he's telling the truth or not, we would have no reason to disbelieve him, in fact we find it plausible that he is telling the truth... and there was a nurse.
KY: Where does the 'extra-terrestrial hypothesis' fit into this? Can you address any suspicions that something 'otherworldly' happened at Roswell?
LR: Don't go by what you read today, but go back to what was said then, from the original interviews. The closer it is to the time of the event, the more accurate the description. Now if it's the second-cousin to the uncle who sat on the schoolbus next to the grandfather of the person who saw it... don't believe it.
KY: What steps have you taken to secure a publisher?
LR: We are obviously not writers, for we have taken all the wrong steps. We thought we had a story that was so timely and important that publishers would come to us. That's how naive we were. When we realized that wouldn't happen, we took the first step in contacting a few publishers and they said "go away and play by the rules." You have to have a query letter and chapter, etceteras, that's the way this industry works. If it was possible to do it wrong, we've done it wrong. It's a business like any other.
CR: They want us to tell them the whole story before they agree to publish.
KY: Why 'Iceman Down?' What is the significance of the title?
LR: There are two tracks through the book, one is the track about all the strange things that happened to us, and the other one is the historical track. There are passages that we wrote to make the historical track a continuous one, and these passages we call 'scenarios.' In one or more of these scenarios, we discuss a teletype message that came down from headquarters. Well, we don't have an exact teletype message which may have come from headquarters, but we know that this information got from this person to that person, and it was probably a teletype message. The Air Force and The Army always had code-names they used, and Iceman was a CODE-NAME. A made-up code-name. It has a significance that you wouldn't realize if you weren't involved.
CC: Do you feel good about this research and what you have come across?
LR: Just speaking for me... I never feel happy with anything I do, I don't know why. This book is the same way. I really wish I knew a little more about this or that. But overall, our answer is right.
CR: We're still working on it. It's not done, like anything. We haven't found the borders to the puzzle. But there are some areas where we have a real good feeling about what we have learned.
KY: Thanks for the interview. We'll be looking forward to the book.
LR: Thank you.
Additional Comment:
I met with Curt and Larry several times prior to this interview. I am impressed with their sincerity and credibility. They have told of the 'Keepers of The Secret' who work still today to conceal the truth of The Roswell Incident. The Keepers have much to hide, and a great embarrassment to gain. While writing this book, they claim that an office has been broken into... and they have been followed.
Both Curt and Larry claim to sleep well at night, that their findings have not induced a climate of panic or fear in their lives. They do claim, however, to see things with a different outlook. They do not think the Roswell Revelation will unravel society or induce panic.
They speak with rock-solid assurance of having the final answer to this legendary mystery.
Whether otherworldly beings were involved at Roswell they will not elaborate upon as of yet. They simply say: "There's something for everyone in this book."
They believe their findings could re-write history. Based upon my conversations with these gentlemen, I strongly suspect they have some information which could be potentially explosive.
Kenny Young __ UFO Research
Original interview text: