- Interview with Ben Cullen by John Hubbard Abridged, edited,
and annotated by Shawn Montgomery
- From a transcript of a talk with Ben Cullen recorded
sometime in the 1950's in which Cullen describes how he befriended Rife:
- "...Rife liked to come down to my garage and play
his French horn, play his guitar and mandolin and cello. Believe me, he
sent the visitors into seventh heaven. Rife started one day playing his
French horn. He played operas like Rigoletto and Il Trovatore perfectly.
All of the people on the block came down to hear Rife's music in the garage.
There must have been 100 people there before he quit. Rife's eyes were
just running water because he put his whole heart and soul into his playing.
From that time on we became very fast friends.
- I followed Rife every night. I went out to work with
Rife. There was so much we could talk about in each other's language that
we communicated well. I was a journeyman and tool and die maker from England
and Rife was 100% Scotch. I made a steady pilgrimage to Rife's garage where
we set up a shop with machinery to build his microscopes. Rife began to
become deeply involved in bacteriology. We would discuss microorganisms.
We began to install (in his workshop) equipment tools and machines. I bought
a pretty nice little centrifuge.
- In 1933, we began to build Rife's third microscope, the
big Universal Microscope. Rife also developed the Rife Ray Machine. He
had purchased many electronic instruments and was in close contact with
Coolidge and Steinmetz of General Electric Co. They shipped Rife thousands
of big x-ray tubes, radio tubes, and parts for his instruments. Dr. Lee
DeForrest, inventor of the radio tube worked with us weekends to help put
the circuits together..."
- From a letter dated May 16, 1977 to journalist Christopher
Bird from John Hubbard reporting on his just completed research trip to
- "...Of course the high points of my trip were the
personal visits with Benjamin Cullen, and Henry Siner, and Bernard Gross...
what I did first was to go visit with Benjamin Cullen. He is indeed a most
remarkable man to me. I taped nearly two hours of an interview with him
and I believe he is the most vigorous octogenarian I have ever known. His
speech was swift, although the voice was not a strong one. He is incisive
and could make recollections stretching back into the distant past or into
the very near recent past with equal facility, almost. He was quite busy
also. He talked with me for over two hours at his home, and the next morning
was flying to meet one of NASA's physicists in the south-west for some
discussions on parapsychological phenomena. The following week, when he
came back to town he drove in to meet Henry Siner and myself at the Imperial
Bank. I have never known a man in his late 80's to drive an automobile.
Then again I have never known an 86 year old man to have a 35 year old
wife, which Cullen does..."
- The following interview was recorded in April 1977 at
Ben Cullen's home in Spring Valley, California.
- Hubbard: Do you remember that picture of the spore? [The
tetanus spore in the Smithsonian Institute report - Ed] That is the one
which is particularly important. And you were telling me the last time
we talked (on the phone) that Rife had split a baby's hair in four parts
- did he try to put the spore - the tetanus organism - in like THIS in
the four parts? [making clasping motion with three fingers and thumb simulating
- Cullen: You see what happened was this: first he took
the hair and mounted it into a matrix - erect, to hold it straight. Then
he mounted in a micro-dissector with a very fine, sharply honed blade.
And he used a portion of a safety razor blade with which he had cut and
honed it down very, very thin. To look at a razor blade ordinarily, it
looks like this, [tracing jagged line in the air with finger] even though
it is a good edge to shave by. He had to have it so thin that it was almost
so thin that he had to be careful not to move it either this way or that
way or it would bend. Blown up on a microscope - that is, one of these
reflectometers or something like that - it was a very, very rugged edge,
but nevertheless, by moving it back and forth it cut down through (the
- First, he removed all the outside excess mounting wax
that he had. And of course, you can call it a matrix if you wish, holding
the hair - it was held in a special vice, a small vice - and he came on
down through, and sawed down until he got down to 1/4 of an inch of the
hair cut down. And then he cut this through and removed that half, which
then you have a half round condition for 1/4 of an inch. And then he turned
that sideways and split that right down from the top to the area where
it was cut away to make a half of a hair. Then he fared that off very carefully
so as to have no sharp edges, and also, you know, in any machined condition,
whether its a hair or a piece of steel or anything else, you have to have
- And how he put that radius in was very, very interesting
indeed. He contrived a very, very fine hair with some very extremely fine
dust, which he called, let's see... it was something like "rouge,"
and he held this half-hair in the matrix. He worked this back and forth
with a little reciprocating frame, like this, so that the hair with the
impregnated - something like diamond, only he said it was a type of "rouge"
- gradually he was able to produce a radius right in at the cut of the
- Then he feathered the entire balance of the hair off
to a point so that there would not be a sharp sudden break-off. Then he
turned the hair over, after of course he recovered it from the wax, and
turned it over, and with some very fine pairs of tweezers. He used about
a 12-power glass. He mounted that in a very small chuck - the type of chuck
that you can twist to collapse the interior three gripping surfaces so
he could get it into a center, something like the old-fashion carpenter's
brace or any other type of drill-holding chuck - but it was very, very
small. He did a splendid job on that.
- I think he first tried Tobin bronze and he found it was
too porous so he went to... he couldn't use titanium because he didn't
have then the tools to work titanium. I think he was able to get, at that
time, some annealed chrome molybdenum and he was able to use it so that
he could make up a very fine chuck... and so he turned it up in the lathe.
He had a jeweller's lathe. In fact he had several lathes. And that little
chuck was made up so that the hair could be entered in that chuck and closed
up so as to hold it.
- Now the trick, of course, was to hold it so that the
two pieces of the hair, as it was spread... as it was pushed down it would
spread... and of course this is the top side, the rounded side, this is
the flat side under here [motioning]. And as it was pressed down, like
this, it would open. Now the reason was because the hair naturally has
some spring-back like any material, and he found that they were sufficient
to bring about a gripping of these tetanus bacilli. He tried it with a
hookworm bacillus first, and the hookworm, I know he laid a dozen of them
in a row, and it was quite interesting, and then after that of course he
was working with the tetanus bacillus.
- So that's what he did. In picking it up after he had
put this down, first he had the thing mounted in a very fine multiple-leverage
manipulator - in other words, by moving his main lever, it would be like
a very, very fine vernier, he could move it with say a 1/2 inch and get
just a couple of thousandths, or 1/2 a thousandths of movement on this
little chuck here.
- Hubbard: (Laughs) Yes, OK.
- Cullen: And then he laid it down like this and opened
it. And then he had a means of moving the whole framework like that to
the bacillus, and then as he raised it up the two ends of the hair closed
on the bacillus but there was insufficient power to crush it. It picked
it up but it didn't crush it. Then of course by manipulating the whole
thing it laid on a slide until he had enough of them on a slide, and then
of course put it on the microscope and took his photographs.
- Hubbard: How much time was he working on this project?
- Cullen: You mean the entire project? He started when
first I met him in 1913...
- Hubbard: No, just on this bacillus.
- Cullen: Oh the bacillus... oh, it took him a full ten
days, because, for a long time he would say, "I've got to see the
entire project in my mind first." So he would go to bed and leave
a pad and pencil by his bed. He had an ability, which, you might understand,
to call on the same as Beethoven did to get his music - from the other
- At eleven, twelve or one o'clock, he would wake up with
some information and put it down. And by the end of about two or three
days, he'd called me up and say, "Ben, I got a lot of information.
Come over and see it." Of course, I always spent more time than I
should have, because I always had to get up at six a.m. in the morning.
I never got to bed here until about twelve or one a.m. in the morning.
I lost a lot of sleep on that deal. You see he was on Point Loma and I
live right out here. I've been out here for 46, 47 years now. Then so,
I would go over and it mechanically looked very good.
- So then he started, and after he had it all fixed up,
first there was a micro-dissector. He did another little trick too - he
dissected... in fact he took a very small (human) embryo that had been
a miscarriage, and he cut it in very fine slices and was able to study
so much, and that is another project. (Returning to the tetanus bacillus)...
- After he had them all laid out, there wasn't one of them
that was mashed in any way, shape or form. Of course, at first, he tried
different types of hairs and some of them were too powerful. Two quarters
as they came together would take and squash the bacillus. Finally, he said,
"I think if I can find a young lady, or a baby that had golden brown
hair, I am told that that hair is quite tough and yet very springy and
yet very fine." So it happened that my daughter Sylvia had that kind
of hair. So I took some of it over to him and he used that.
- So after that of course, he was wrapped up more, not
so much in his micro-manipulator as he was in the development of the microscope
and also development of some type of ray of very high frequency current
which would annihilate any types of cancer virus in his work. And so, he
worked a great deal on that.
- Hubbard: Did he every make any other very thin sections
like this section of the tetanus bacillus?
- Cullen: The hookworm and the embryo are the only other
two that I remember.
- Hubbard: Do you recall how big this embryo was?
- Cullen: It was, I would say about 5 mm long and stretched
out by 2 1/2mm, including the overall size of the body, 5 1/2 to 6 mm long.
It was very small, in fact, he was so astounded that such a small embryo
would be so perfect. The fingers were formed, and the whole thing. Quite
often you find, in an embryo that's aborted, it would be Mongoloid for
some little time. But this was perfectly formed. In fact there were stools
in the bowels and food in the intestinal tract and the stomach.
- Hubbard: At 5 mm or 5 cm?
- Cullen: I guess I 'm talking centimetres right now, yes,
because it had to be big enough of course, to handle.
- Hubbard: [gesturing] This is 5 cm right here.
- Cullen: It would be about double that size. That 5 cm
would be double the size of the baby.
- Hubbard: 2 1/2 cm.
- Cullen: Yes, I know because I saw it laying out there.
My remembrance of measurements was not too bad. I used to have a great
deal of work in fine-menturation in the factories.
- Hubbard: Do you remember what year, approximately it
was that Rife cut the section of this tetanus spore? [Recall here that
Hubbard is referring to the Typhoid Bacillus photos published in the 1944
Smithsonian and Franklin Institute articles -Ed]
- Cullen: It was 1928 and '29, somewhere in that area.
- Hubbard: 1928 or 1929. He made this picture then, not
with his big Universal microscope but with one of his earlier microscopes,
- Cullen: Yes he did.
- Hubbard: Oh, well.
- Cullen: It was because that Universal microscope was
magnified too large for anything like that. You see, he worked in an area
the size of a pinhead, and that was large enough to have to play with when
it came to the filterable forms. He used one of his earlier microscopes,
he had several microscopes. He had one of course that magnified 5000 times
and one that magnified 10,000 times. In fact he made several 10,000-magnification
microscopes and one went to Dr. Patterson. I think it was in England through
the help of Henry Siner.
- Hubbard: Was it Patterson or...?
- Cullen: I may be wrong. It was a Dr. Gonin, who was the
physician to the Queen at that time, and Dr. Patterson was in that deal,
and I can't recall other names too well [Cullen is mis-remembering the
name. It is not Dr. Patterson but a Dr. Parsons to whom he is referring
- Hubbard: I see.
- Cullen: The difficulty is that they have all passed on
in one way or another.
- Hubbard: Has Mr. Siner been out to see you recently?
- [Henry Siner was another assistant to Rife who worked
primarily with the microscope. Siner ventured to England in 1938 to assist
a British Group of doctors (mentioned above by Cullen) in establishing
overseas a laboratory using Rife microscopes and beam ray machines - Ed]
- Cullen: I haven' t seen Henry for quite a long time.
He has been more wrapped up in high finance. He has been Chairman of the
Board of the Siner Paint and Glass Co. and a couple of other activities.
We have more or less separated because I remained, in his idea, just a
little bit too much of a church-mouse to be bothered with.
- Hubbard: Well, they may not be quite accurate.
- Cullen: It may not. Henry is a very fine fellow. I liked
Henry very much. I have known him of course for many years and during the
last World War it was possible for me to turn a great deal of business
to him through what we call outside production or outside order - materials
for Convair. You see we had cost plus ten, which was of course was a very,
very easy way to do anything. We had lots of money. And I could suggest
that much of the work that we were scrambling to get together could be
produced outside. And Henry got many, many orders for all sorts of chromes
and paints of every conceivable description. And as a consequence, Henry
made quite a bit of money. And of course their glass company built rapidly
after that and then he seemed to be spreading out, and of course had a
large number of agencies established in the county and other counties.
And then I lost contact with him.
- Hubbard: Well, coming back to the microscopes... this
picture here is unusual in that now we have confirmation from the electron
microscope. This picture here [gesturing to the Smithsonian typhoid bacillus
photograph]... the dimensions - you see the spacing between these lines
here - this corresponds with our so-called "unit membrane." And
there is space out here - this is the "nuclear membrane." Well
the distances between these three components here, the distance between
these, corresponds exactly with what we know since about 1950-60.
- Cullen: Between the lines?
- Hubbard: Yes, between the lines, you see.
- Cullen: What significance do you attach to that?
- Hubbard: Well, you see, the significance is that the
methods - the instrument that produced this - was able to produce a resolution
which we were not able to obtain except with an electron microscope many
years later. Now then, I would like to see this microscope re-constructed,
recovered, the principles of it determined - because we would probably
be able to work with material that is still has water in it. We could work
with living material.
- Now we would still have problems of sectioning. Notice
that this typhoid bacillus here, this is complete, this is not sectioned.
You cannot see as much detail in this as you can in this because this is
a thin section. [Hubbard is referring again to two of the photos from the
Smithsonian article comparing the Typhoid bacillus organism photo to the
sectioned Tetanus spore photo - Ed] But this has resolution down in the
neighbourhood of about 20 angstroms, at least, and nobody had ever been
able to do that until the electron microscope came along and until they
had methods for making thin sections.
- Now this, Ben, is the Xeroxed copy of the article in
the Smithsonian Institute Report. I had our photographer make a smooth
glossy copy of (the photomicrographs) and this merely will show you what
the legend was in the original and you can compare it. Well you see, all
you have to do is a little arithmetic - the object size, or, the size of
the specimen, times the magnification, is equal to the image size. So if
we have the image size we can do the arithmetic and we can go back and
figure out what the object size was. Now then, independently, we know what
the diameter of tetanus spores are, from both the light microscope (the
conventional light microscope), and from the electron microscope.
- So by going back and checking the arithmetic from that
source, we can confirm that this is the correct dimension. We also have
- that is, we now know independently - the thickness of the spore wall
here and the interior of the spore. We can compare this distance with this
distance and we get a ratio, which is exactly comparable to what we know
from modern electron microscopy.
- I know that this microscope - even though I've got only
three pictures to look at, and only this one can I make correct measurements
from - I know that this was an extraordinary microscope and I want to get
it rebuilt. I have known about this microscope since 1947. I found this
report in the Smithsonian Institute report and I wrote to Rife back in
1949 but he never answered me. I kept asking and sending letters and so
- Cullen: At that time, it was just exactly ten years from
the time he started drinking and he was mentally pretty well in shock.
I couldn't get him to do hardly anything. I tried to get him to provide
us with closed-circuit television in Lion Aeronautical. I tried to get
him to provide us with information and help in our laboratories over at
Convair in regard to metallic crystallography and stuff of that sort. And
he could have made a lot of money that way. But every time I got him closeted
with a group of engineers and he would start to outline his thoughts and
what he could do and they were all sitting on tender hooks - he would excuse
himself and go outside.
- By the time he got back he would be waddling. He had
to have that liquor - which of course was the fault of the advice and council
he received in 1939 during the final windup of our case where we were accused
by the AMA of doing something they did not like in regard to the application
of the Rife ray for cancer and so forth. And of course that was all a mistake.
Of course they had the right kind of help, medical men of repute. But by
that time when Rife came on the stage and on the witness stand to testify
he went all to pieces.
- Hubbard: And this was in 1939?
- Cullen: Yes.
- Hubbard: Now, I went down to the courthouse and copied
all of the records on that trial and I read them on the projection machine,
they have them on microfilm down there, and I was just surprised. There
would be times when they would want Rife to come to court and from the
record there - he wouldn't show up.
- Cullen: No he wouldn't.
- Hubbard: Was that because he would be drunk, or what?
- Cullen: No it wasn't. Rife was a tremendously capable
man as long as he could manipulate what he was working with. When it came
to being in a court of law, where you're right down to dog-eat-dog, why,
that just unnerved him and he couldn't stand it.
- Hubbard: What kind of questions would they ask him that
would unnerve him?
- Cullen: It wasn't that any questions would be asked to
unnerve him - but here he was a man who had spent his lifetime in doing
things that others had told him were wonderful - just simply marvellous
- his lenses and stethoscope, and his guns, so many, many things that he
did. All this he was told by many men from England and from Germany and
other places that he was an excellent man in his field. Possibly I am not
using the correct nomenclature and verbiage that I should use, but nevertheless,
he absolutely felt on top. And when he got into court he became a simple,
plain human being. And anything he might say he was afraid might incriminate
him - although there was nothing at all that the trial could find that
he would be at any time considered culpable in any mistake at all or anything
that might have been done. It was all done of course through our corporation:
The Beam Rays Corporation.
- Now, Rife felt completely frustrated because he could
not do anything in court except say "yes" or "no" -
and he knew what to say and he was not allowed to say it. If he was allowed
to enlarge the least little bit, why, the Prosecution would cut him right
off and there would be a fight as to whether it should be entered in the
record or stricken from the record or what. It so unnerved him that he
was just simply scared to death. He was not at all conversant with law.
The only law he knew was the law of research and investigation.
- Hubbard: Was there a transcript of this trial ever made,
a typed transcript of the testimony in the Judge's chamber?
- Cullen: I wouldn't be able to tell you that. Bert Comparet
would be the man to tell you that. Do you know who he is? He was our attorney
at that time. Let me see if I can get his telephone number.
- Hubbard: All right, thank you.
- Cullen: His telephone number is 284-2666, and the address
is 4930 Mansfield, and his name is spelled C-o-m-p-a-r-e-t, B-e-r-t-r-a-n-d.
He is of French extraction.
- Hubbard: He was the attorney for Rife?
- Cullen: Yep, and for all of us. Actually we hired him.
Rife you see wasn't accused of anything. He wasn't indicted. He wasn't
anything. He simply was a witness and in spite of the fact that they had
nothing against him and never did find anything against him, he simply
went to pieces.
- Hubbard: That is very, very strange. How old was Rife
when his father died?
- Cullen: Strange as it may seem I have no knowledge of
- Hubbard: Did he ever speak of his father?
- Cullen: He never spoke of his father in the whole time
I had known him from 1913 until 1950.
- Hubbard: That's very strange. But he did speak of his
mother quite a bit didn't he?
- Cullen: Not to me. You see he was married to a very lovely
Chinese woman, her name was Mamie. She was a member of the Ah Quin family
here. She was a very splendid person and of course I am rather partial
to Chinese. At one time I must have been Chinese. Perhaps you don't believe
in reincarnation, I don't know what your ideas are.
- [Rife's father in-law was the wealthy and famous Ah Quin,
the "unofficial mayor of San Diego's China Town." His daughter
Mamie was one of twelve children who were born and raised in Canton, Ohio
and San Diego - Ed]
- Hubbard: I don't have any really. But go ahead.
- Cullen: And so Mamie was a very fine person and everybody
just loved her and he always spoke very highly of her. But I never heard
him talk of his mother or father in the whole time. And we were together
an awful lot, goodness, we were together often times week after week. Every
night after I would get away from my work here at the house - first I would
come in from factory and then after I did what I could do around the house
I always slipped in to do what could be done at the lab. In fact my wife
often claimed that she was more a widow than she was married. We were together
so much and in that whole time I don' t recall that he ever once mentioned
his father or mother.
- Hubbard: Did you ever hear him speak anything about his
boyhood? Did he ever talk about any of the friends that he had or any fights
or any athletics or anything like that?
- Cullen: Very little. He was so much more interested in
optics and also to get all he could in optics he studied all he could from
the Chinese development in optics, plus Zeiss in Westlar, Germany and others.
- Hubbard: But Carl Zeiss was not at Westlar, that was
Ernst Leitz at Westlar, Carl Zeiss was at Jenna.
- Cullen: That is strange because all was referred to Zeiss
as being in Westlar. However, I saw much information, much correspondence
from both places.
- Hubbard: From both places. Did he ever mention the name
Hans Lukal to you?
- Cullen: Yes he did.
- Hubbard: And this was one of the people that he studied
- Cullen: Yes.
- Hubbard: Do you remember if this man was at Zeiss or
was at Leitz?
- Cullen: I understood he was at Leitz.
- Hubbard: Do you remember the optics which the microscope
objectives which Rife used? Did he use both Leitz optics and Zeiss optics?
Or did he only Leitz optics?
- Cullen: As far as I could find, he used only Zeiss in
this Universal Microscope. Now I'm not going to say he used only Zeiss
completely because he ground many of his own lenses. He developed a system
of grinding his own lenses and I watched him do it. He mounted them, of
course, in this 21-bend microscope, which is his Universal. I was hoping
to work with John Crane who has the microscope skeleton now, and have him
let me have it.
- Hubbard: Have you talked with him?
- Cullen: I have talked with him a great deal.
- Hubbard: What does he say?
- Cullen: Well at first about a few weeks ago he said he
would let me have it and I would polish it up and get it in shape. And
then I said, "I would like to have you plan to have it exhibited in
the Hall of Sciences." He said he thought of that too. Then he casually
mentioned that he was going over to Japan... and today is the 20th... and
I expect he has been over there now for about ten days.
- Hubbard: Oh, he did go to Japan then?
- Cullen: Yep, and I haven't tried to find out whether
he is home or not to check up on it. I could, of course.
- Hubbard: Well I'll call him Ben, that's all right, just
go ahead... but he was going to Japan?
- Cullen: Yes to finance one or two of his items. He (Crane)
has a type of microscope that he invented himself. It's a rough and ready
looking thing to me. But he can throw, of course, on to a screen, a magnification
of up to over 400,000 times. But then the resolution is not good. And he
says he is going to improve it. Now, he is quite jealous. When I went over
the last time, he said, "Yes, I will let you have it."
- Now, I called him on the phone and I told him I was about
to have our biggest car - which is an lmpala - overhauled, and it would
be tied up for some time. But before I did, I could come over and pick
it up because it had ample room in the trunk to bring it over here. He
said, "I'm not going to let you have it, I won't be doing anything
about it until I get back from Japan." I said, "When do you expect
to get back?" He said, "I don't know."
- So that was the way we left it. I just simply felt, well,
there is nothing that I could help anybody with as long as I can't get
the microscope because I could help whoever was still in optics. I could
outline the types of lenses and prisms and the way that whole thing was
worked out through magnification and through interposition of lenses between
prisms so as to prevent any spherical aberration at high magnification
- or to prevent the crossing of the light rays, which of course they'll
do when you get to around 120mm of focal length. And so I've had so much
else to do in other ways so I began to think, "Well, what's the use."
I just didn't feel that I wanted to continue.
- Hubbard: Well, now Ben I know that there are problems
here. I came out here a year ago to see John Crane. I'm just being very
patient with him and I am going to try to do one step at a time. I am going
to try to be here through next Wednesday. I have to go back to New York
on Thursday. I am hoping that I will be able to contact John before I leave.
But let's not be discouraged now if this thing doesn't get firmed up immediately.
John has had these microscopes now for about twenty years and he hasn't
done anything with them really.
- Cullen: He has a mind that is very fertile but doesn't
complete anything he starts. He has a very fine system of monorail high-speed
transportation but he simply doesn't push one particular thing long enough
to realise its value or to get it into operation. He just scatters his
fire and so he has so many things that are going up at the same time. Now
with Rife, he would concentrate on a microscope and bacteriology, but to
rest his mind he would pick up his French horn and play the most wonderful
music - or he would just go out in his racing shell and go out and ride
and row rapidly - or his fast bicycle and do six miles or ten miles on
his bicycle, something like that - or he would study this multiple engine
that he developed which was able to take wonderful photographs at 10,000
feet after sundown. And many things like that that he did. But he always
came back to his one love and he completed that to the best of his ability.
- Hubbard: Now, Ben do you know of the whereabouts of any
laboratory notebooks or any records that Rife made of the work that he
- Cullen: John Crane had them all.
- Hubbard: The story that he (Crane) has given to me is
that the Food and Drug people removed those records from his home there
at the time he was involved in some court actions.
- Cullen: Well, I have very little here, I thought I could
find some considerable information, but I have very little here. What I
do have originated from Crane. I did have a lot of information but after
I married Jeanne we were quite busy taking care of this other place and
doing many things that ties up my activities now and as a consequence whatever
became of the stuff I don't know. I may come across it sometime because
I have a lot of storage outside, but I simply have to make a living. My
living comes from counselling and so forth. And I have developed a capacity
- that is, scientific hand analysis and graphology, scientific handwriting
analysis also - and all the means wherein I can advise and counsel people.
- And I always put everything on tape and that becomes
a permanent record for that person for the rest of their life. It is a
very important record and a document they should always take of and if
possible transcribe it from tape to typewritten form. And of course I have
been doing this now for the last 25 years. And this of course happened
to be something that provides me with a little additional remuneration.
Social Security couldn't take care of my expenses, not by 1/4. Of course
I am 86 years of age and I have been retired quite a little while.
- Hubbard: Well, my father...you're are just about almost
as old as my father. My father will be 89 in this November. He is still
- Cullen: What day in November?
- Hubbard: 5th of November.
- Cullen: I was born the 2nd.
- Hubbard: Well we have got the same birthday then. I was
born on the 2nd of November 1922.
- Cullen: I wondered why you were so persistent. I said
you couldn't be a Cancer, you couldn't be Gemini. You could be a Leo, but
then I was wondering.
- Hubbard: Well this is very interesting. Let me switch...
I am not going about this in the order that I should but... you would of
course recognise Rife's handwriting, wouldn't you? And any laboratory notebooks
that he had? Do you remember Alice Kendall or Mrs. Alice Callaway, Dr.
- Cullen: I remember the name, yes, I remember Alice Kendall.
But I didn't know her very well. I knew Dr. Kendall, he had a Chair in
- Hubbard: Yes he was Dean of the Medical School there
for a while and Chairman of their microbiology department.
- Cullen: Yes, he certainly was well up on microbiology
and bacteriology. Also I met Dr. Rosenow too. He came up here. But Kendall
was a splendid man because he knew so much, And he used of course, Kendall
Medium, K media, to maintain comparative tissue life and for anything we
were doing with lung tissue section and any kind of excise material from
animals like rats or guinea pigs.