- Dear Jeff,
- These are some transcripts from the interviews with the
three military officials directly involved in the Mexican Air Force C26A
plane incident on March 5, 2004.
- The interviews were made by researcher Jaime Maussan
as part of the investigation in April 2004. The military officials are
Major Magdaleno Castañon as pilot commander of the plane, Lt. German
Ramirez Marin, the RADAR operator and Lt. Mario Adrian Velasquez Telles,
the FLIR operator.
- Interview with Major Magdaleno Castañon, Command
- Question: Major, did you feel worried at any time when
you realized you were surrounded by these unknown lights ?
- Answer: According to the information I heard from the
operations coordinator chief - he was in charge of the visualization operation
on the screens - he mentioned that the objects were in the back, on the
left side and in front of us. It was at that moment that I began to feel
- Question: But despite that information, none of you could
see the objects?
- Answer: We never saw them. We couldn't make visual contact
- Question: Then, only through the FLIR was it possible
to detect the presence of these objects.
- Answer: Yes, only with the FLIR system...the infrared
- Question: Would you say that the objects were invisible
to normal sight?
- Answer: I would say so because none of the crew could
see them with simple eyesight.
- Question: At that distance, where the objects were from
you, wouldn't you have been able to see them ?
- Answer: The closest distance that we had from the objects
was 2 miles. Our experience tells us that we can identify conventional
aircraft at that distance, so that's the doubt that operation left on us.
- Question: When you decided to turn off all your airplane
lights, you made that decision to avoid any posible conflict with these
strange objects ?
- Answer: I did that perhaps following an instinct, thinking
that maybe it could help in some way. As flight commander, I felt I had
to take some kind of meassure because the signal I received was that we
were being followed and by turning our light off, I was expecting a similar
reaction from them. It was an instinct.
- Question: In the beginning of the incident, was it possible
these objects became aware that you were following them ?
- Answer: It's just a guess, but perhaps there was a connection
in that sense because it is very strange that we first pursued them, but
when we cancelled that and made a completely opposite turn. The objects
then also turned themselves - but now in OUR direction and began following
us. I think it could be posible that in some way these objects were aware
that we have been following and observing them.
- Question: What is your conclusion of this experience
- Answer: What I can say as commander of a plane on a mission,
is that this incident serves as a new precedent of future operations yet
to come in our military division.
- As a commander, I accomplished my duty in performing
a safe operation and in maintaining the safety of the personal and the
equipment. If a similar incident like this takes place in the future and
something tragic happens, the fault won't be that of the commander due
to a loss of skill or negligence.
- Question: Are you concerned that these objects cannot
- Answer: I'm concerned because if a tragic incident happens,
I would not have any evidence that could be used as legal defense in a
court of law during any resulting trial.
- Interview with Lieutenant German Ramirez Marin. (non-FLIR)
- Question: When was the first time you became aware of
- Answer: When we made a turn to route ourselves to Campeche,
the FLIR infrared camera operator detected a target without a shape, just
a shine. The target continued being observed with the FLIR. Then we detected
other targets at the left side of the plane. They were eleven targets.
We never had visual contact with them.
- Question: The eleven targets appeared on the normal (non-infrared)
- Answer. No. The eleven targets were not detected on the
RADAR screen. Initially, only one target was detected by the RADAR. Then
another target appeared at one 'o clock, that's how we describe the position
that is in the front but slightly to our right. And then a third one in
back of the plane. Those were the only three targets that appeared in the
RADAR screen during the incident. The other ones that were at nine 'o clock,
on our left side never appeared on the RADAR.
- Question: There was a time when these objects surrounded
- Answer: Yes, we can assume that because we had information
of a target in the front, another one slightly to the right, one in the
back, and according to the FLIR several others on our left side. So, we
assumed that we were surrounded.
- Question: Did you feel fear ?
- Answer: Fear? ... Yes, personally, there was some fear
because we were confronting a situation that has never happened to us before.
- Question: The objects movements on the RADAR were out
of the ordinary ?
- Answer: Certainly. Our data information - most of all,
the icons (blips), the clusters - were always there on the screen, but
the information on their movements was heavily changing. Their speed changes
were sudden, 60 -120- 300 knots, according to the RADAR information.
- The same happened with their flight paths. The flying
paths showed first 90 degrees and suddenly 130 degrees in the RADAR screen.
- Question: What does that mean ?
- Answer: This means that the target changed direction
constantly at great speed. There is no aircraft that can perform such direction
changes so quickly.
- Interview with Lieutenant Mario Adrian Velazquez Tellez.
- Question: Is it posible that the FLIR gives false information?
- Answer: It is not posible that the FLIR gives errroneus
information because this was visual information of a target that had both
heat and movement, so we could not make a reference to something that is
- Question: Does the FLIR register hot air ?
- Answer: No. The FLIR doesn't register hot air, it register
an object that generates heat.
- Question: Then the eleven objects that were detected
by the FLIR were generating heat. Were these objects there even that you
couldn't see them with your eyes?
- Answer: They were there, and we have the data references
by their positions. They were on our left side, at the same laltitude and
the same speed.
- Question: How much heat were the objects generating?
- Answer. We managed several meassures trying to get an
image and all the time the targets maintained themselves very hot. We never
found any irregular shape, they were spherical all the time.
- Question: Is this type of shape irregular with respect
to other aircraft you have detected before?
- Answer: Yes, this is an irregular shape, I know of nothing
like the aircraft I have seen.
- Question: Do you have any previous personal knowledge
of any similar incident like this in your experience?
- Answer: I have never experienced anything like this and
I don't not know what to tell you. I don't have any explanation what these
- Question: You had detection with the RADAR and the FLIR?
- Answer. That is correct. The RADAR gave us positions
and then with the FLIR we searched that area. We located the targets and
we kept those targets on the screen while the RADAR was detecting other
targets giving us more positions. We tried to keep all these targets on
the screen all the time, so as not to lose them.
- Question: How did the objects surround the airplane?
- Answer: The RADAR had objects on the front, slighlty
to the right and on the back. The FLIR had several objects on the left
so we could say that we were surrounded.
- Question: Were the objects big in size?
- Answer: They were big, especially two of them that were
closer to us.
- Question: Could the FLIR have imagined this? Is it posible
to manipulate the FLIR information?
- Answer: No. It is not posible to load information to
the FLIR. All the information the FLIR is detecting is out there and is
really happening. And the FLIR records this information in real time.