Who's Wagging Whom?
A Discussion About
Zionism And Jews
Part 1


Note - The following heated discussion has been burning up the net for the past several days to a large list of journalists and researchers, and I thought the dialogue is of interest. -ed
John Kaminski said:
Hi guys,
I like this interpretation, though I don't think it's quite that simple, in that Jewish infiltration of the British and American power structures began at the time of Disraeli, and has accelerated since through distinctly specific programs in social philosophy that have affected banking, the hard sciences, medicine and media. We can debate this a long time and the result would be who's wagging whom, with good arguments on both sides. This debate needs to take place. I'd like it continue, and I'll take the liberty of adding a few interesting names to the discussion.
Best wishes, John K.
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, JB Campbell wrote: John - This is an interesting summary of the roots of Zionist Palestine, as is the question about who's doing the wagging. My version is similar but goes a little farther. Zionist (Russian Jew) fanaticism to invade and occupy Palestine and make the Law go forth from Zion predates the oil discoveries. This weird dream would prove useful to the money power. The oil monopolists early saw that an oversupply of the product was ruining their price structure. Rockefeller constantly claimed "shortages" threatened his operations in Ohio and Indiana as a way to keep prices up, when in fact Standard Oil was floating on an ocean of deposits. This scam was wrecked when the Spindletop wildcat blew in in East Texas. Oil prices went down! The last thing Rockefeller (who was a wholly-owned subsidiary of Rothschild of Frankfurt, Paris and London) wanted was for similar deposits to be found and produced in Russia or China or the Middle East. How to prevent such a catastrophe? Or at the very least, severely control any exploitation? Rockefeller/Rothschild chose violence. John D. had employed violence, extortion and fraud in his control of railroad shipping in Ohio and Erie region. This gave him a monopolistic advantage over the smaller producers, many of whom were ruined. John D.'s motto: "Competition is a sin." And he meant it. And so, a decision was made to support the Bolsheviks as the most cost-effective means to prevent the commercial exploitation of raw materials in Russia and all of central Asia.
Lenin and Trotsky were sent into Russia to seize the Russian government from Kerensky. As the Red death squads began liquidating the upper and emerging middle classes of Russia, the country naturally ground to a halt. Wall Street pumped many millions of dollars to prop up the cancerous Jewish dictatorship and so kept Russia from ever developing her oil and minerals in a meaningful way. (Right up through the '80s, Russian oil rigs were like scenes from a comedy, with dozens of inept workers trying to do what a handful of American roughnecks normally and efficiently do. Kind of an oilfield kibbutz.) The Jewish twins, Communism and Zionism, developed side by side in Russia during the same period in the late 19th Century. The Zionists had this pipe dream that if only they could emigrate to Palestine and somehow seize control of it, they could rule the world from there. But it seemed an impossible dream. Who would support such a thing? Rockefeller and Rothschild did, for the same reasons they supported the Communist Jews in Russia. They subsidized the Zionist Russian Jews in Palestine, forcing the British Army to protect them after 1919 under the terms of the League of Nations "mandate." The bizarre and alien Russian Jewish outpost in Palestine was a destabilizing cancer which would keep oil prices as high as they could possibly go. This open wound would be formalized and made permanent by Rockefeller in 1948 when the United Nations created the "nation" of Israel. The UN was created by Rocky's Council on Foreign Relations, all paid for by Standard Oil. The next year saw China turned over to the Rockefeller/Rothschild agents, Mao Tse-tung and Chou En-lai. The latter had been educated at Rockefeller's Nanking University. Thus began perhaps the greatest human slaughterhouse in history, though which Communist party, Russian or Chinese, killed more millions is debatable.
But the Chinese upper and middle classes were wiped out forever. The lower class was terrorized and brainwashed down to a zombie-like state. There would be no oil production (or any production of anything) until my old outfit, ARCO, went into China in 1979, before it was "legal" to do so. Deals were cut and all of a sudden Chinese slaves started producing all kinds of things. But total Communist control was and is maintained. The CFR did not want Chiang Kai-shek running China and his betrayal and forced deportation to Formosa turned out to be a wise move. Just think what Chiang's China could have produced! His tiny, barren island (Taiwan) rose to number four GNP in the entire world by the 1970s. Horrors! French Indochina was a threat as well, oil-wise. The Communist agent, Ho Chi Minh, was subsidized by Rockefeller and made his political reports to the Hanoi office of Texaco. Ho was an OSS agent. In November, '43 Roosevelt (at Teheran) chose him to be the next leader of the northern half of Indochina. The OSS groomed him for leadership and in 1945 foisted him on the Vietnamese people, who had never heard of him. Nguyen Ai Quoc (real name) had been in Russia and France most of his life. He was sent back home in the '40s to take over for Rothschild/Rockefeller. Bottom line: French kicked out, two American puppets installed in north and south, big war, millions dead, billions in war profits, no upper or middle class and NO OIL PRODUCTION. Some people who know that the Rockefellers have always supported Communism have never understood how Capitalists could do such a thing. It's good for business!
The story is the same for Eastern Europe, especially Rumania (handed over to Stalin by Eisenhower), and Africa. Every Communist party of every country has been supported by the US Department of State and the CIA. General Anwar Eshki of the Saudi army told me in the early '80s that every Arab country, including his own, is manipulated by the Israelis. This is Israel's function, to set one Arab country against others, causing suspicion and hatred - and volatile oil prices. It was reported by Nord Davis in the '80s that one of Israel's first acts was to cut all the oil pipelines under its control. Who wags whom? When you have rich Jews (Rothschild) at the top and parasitic Jews (Israelis) at the bottom, the inescapable answer is that it is a totally Jewish show. It's hard to credit because it is never seen in this way. But the events of the 20th Century - the Federal Reserve, WWI, the Bolshevik coup, WWII, the spread of Communism, Israel's rise and now the war on Islam run by Zionist fanatics who control the White House - cannot be denied or twisted. Dwight Eisenhower said shortly after he left office, "The smartest thing I ever did was to ask Bernard Baruch for advice on my career in 1939." It lead to his skyrocket military and political careers. It also lead to the slaughter of millions of innocent people, to the exact specifications of Rothschild/Rockefeller.
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Jeffrey G. Strahl wrote:
To: JB Campbell Cc: Edgar J. Steele; John Kaminski; Eric Arnow; Brett Friedman; Brian Ezrin; davebunford; Donald Cassidy;; galen; Greg Rowe; Harmon Taylor; Hassan El-Najjar; henry makow; Ingrid Rimland; Israel Shamir; Jackie Patru; Jalal Hasan; James Nolan Campbell; Jim Kirwan; Jon Phalen; Karim Abdul-Latif; Leslie Oliver;; Majiet Shaheed; Michael Lawrence Morton; Mirza, Uzma; nachoua; Norman Livergood; Peter Meyer; Peter Myers; Qasim Khanzada; Rick Davis; Robert Moynihan; Sam Hamod; Scoop Editor - Alastair Thompson; Siegfried Tischler;;; Maisoon Rice; Javed S. Ahmad; David M.;; Mohamed Al-Darsani;;
The cancerous Jewish dictatorship? Lenin, Stalin, Malenkov, Kruschev, Brezhnev/Kosygin, Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko, Gorby: pick out a single Jew here.
This is beginning to sound like the pages of Mein Kampf. I want OUT!
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Edgar J. Steele wrote:
Uhhhhh....well, Lenin, for one, given that lineup, though I doubt he is the only jew listed. Even Lenin suggested that Russian jews, especially those in the Communist Party hierarchy, change their names to something more Russian sounding. The current issue of "The Truth at Last" has some revealing commentary in this area, from which I paraphrase some of the following: After the jewish overthrow of the Tsar, Lenin lifted the restrictions on Russian jews, who then flooded into Moscow, seized total control of the Communist Party and became commissars over most businesses. Jews avoided heading up any of the communist state parties, but always comprised a significant portion of the membership and occupied virtually all the middle and upper positions. Even in the US, jews made up over half the Communist Party, but not one ever served as Chairman. Only after Russia defeated Germany did the jews feel powerful enough to assume leadership roles under their own names, which promptly happened in most eastern-bloc countries. Just before he died, Kruschev wrote his memoirs ("Kruschev Remembers") and recounted how he was part of Stalin's entourage in the 1920s. Some 30 years later, he seized power himself. He was in charge of the 1931/32 "famine" in the Ukraine which killed 7 million. Only when Kruschev's reign ended did the jews begin to leave Russia. Kruschev noted that there was something that held Stalin back from limiting jewish power. The latest dictatorship to come under total jewish control is America, of course. Note that its titular head is not jewish...yet. Mr. Strahl sounds a familiar cry, one that you hear Michael Savage (nee Weiner) invoke daily against those with whom he disagrees. Strahl labels us Nazis for even daring to have this discussion: ("This is beginning to sound like the pages of Mein Kampf. I want OUT!"). Again, we see a very typical jewish response to those who dare to mention the J-Word, designed to frighten us into silence and shift the balance of power his way. (Yawn) The door is over there, Jeff... I offer Exhibit B, ladies and gentlemen. -ed steele
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Jeffrey G. Strahl wrote:
To: Edgar J. Steele
The notion that "jews overthrew the czar" flies in the face of historical fact. It was the workers of Petrograd and other cities, and the mutinous soldiers and sailors, who did that, and established Soviets (means "councils" in Russian) and factory committies, organs of direct democracy which were the organizational structure of many a rebellion since the Paris Commune for implementing real socialism (ie control by *society* of productive resources). These were denatured by the Bolshevik gov't once it took over, ending any attempt at socialism, though not without fierce resistance that lasted several years (eg the Makhnovists in Ukraine, the Kronstadt Rebellion in March '21). The actors in those events were largely non-Jewish, but of course that doesn't fit into paranoid conspiracy fantasies which pass as history in this excuse of a "debate". See Maurice Brinton, The Bolsheviks and Workers Control, it's on-line, comes up easily on a Google search.
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Edgar J. Steele wrote:
With this, I have reached the point whereafter responding to Mr. Strahl's gross misstatements, deception and ad hominem attacks is something I will consider beneath myself. This exchange is illustrative of why I find it so pointless to engage in internet forums, all of which are bristling with jews like him, armed with the same lies and employing the same attack mode, often with the same ADL computer database files open to their elbows (because the same points and styles, even the selfsame phrases, keep repeating, that's how I know).
Specifically, to respond to Strahl's intentional lie concerning the overthrow of the Tsar, Robert Wilton's "The Last Days of the Romanovs," first published in 1920, details their captivity and murder by jews. The walls were scrawled with blood dripping Hebrew words which detailed their deaths. So much for "it wasn't jews."
And, there is a jew beneath every Russian rock, it seems. In his book, "Dan, a Man Without Youth," Dan Roman, a Romanian escapee, recounts the common knowledge in the Romanian prisons where he was brutalized that Nikita Kruschev (a distinctly Ukrainian sounding name) was born Solomon Perlmutter. Kruschev was the short bald dictator with the large rubbery lips who, while pounding his shoe on the podium at the UN, shouted "we will bury you." This explains why the disctinctly non-Ukrainian looking "Kruschev" was so willing to oversee the death of millions of his so-called "countrymen."
Lie upon lie upon lie upon misdirection, followed by personal attacks. This is why it is so important to study the holocaust closely, so as to see the pattern of jewish deception and gross exagerration. From that, one can extrapolate to all that so many jews, such as this Strahl fellow, have to say. This is how they have hijacked America.
And, regarding the zionist/jew distinction - it's a distinction without a difference, I say, because all jews provide cover to their fellow zionists and thereby are to be condemned alongside them. Only a very few, such as Israel Shamir, actively work against the zionist agenda and thereby distinguish themselves, earning from me and my kind a "get out of jail free" card for use when the time comes.
I commend the following articles I have written as particularly relevant to this general theme:
In Defense of Antisemitism It Wasn't Arabs Tell a Joke, Go to Jail Hate Speech: Anything Jews Hate to Hear
Strike 3, Mr. Strahl. You're out.
-ed steele
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004, Jeffrey G. Strahl wrote:
To: Edgar J. Steele
Thanks for hiding nothing, Ed. Now i know i face jail simply for having a "Jewish background" (whatever the f*ck that means) if anyone like you ever even approaches a position of influence.
My lie re: the overthrow of the Czar? You talk about the killing, which was in July 1918, I talk of the March 1917 revolution. Guess you can't tell the difference. Nikita a Jew? ROTFL.
Israel Shamir said:
Hi, friends
This is an interesting discussion! We should be able to discuss it without fear, even if our ideas coincide with those of the famous vegetarian and painter from Vienna. I have to disagree with many of you on many small points - Khruschov (good or bad) was not a Jew, neither was Kerensky. Anyway, they were not more Jews than our friend Edgar Steele (nee Sucherbrucker :-)
But I also disagree with the Jewish trend to claim Anne Frank for their defence - and whether her diaries are real or 'edited', she was an innocent girl; as innocent as my Palestinian neighbour girl murdered by Jews two days ago.
'The Jews' - distinct from 'Jews' - are like the Catholic Church, or Standard Oil, or the UK - or all of it together. Unusual body; nothing good about it. There can be good separate Jews, but 'the Jews' - always bad, even when doing good.
In short, yes, the dog is being wagged, but it is not the tail (Israel) but the Mind (the US Jews). Actually all pre-19th century references to Jewish power are rather doubtful; and the rise of the Jews in the US begins at the earnest in 1968. But today - it is the reality. WASPs, money and all, lost it; as much as the Turkic nobility of Khazaria lost it to the immigrant Jews.
So, the Americans were subdued. What else is new?
Israel Shamir
From Edgar J. Steele
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004
I know that I swore I was through with this thread, but a very well-read friend sent over the following just now:
"Here's another one the Jews don't want talked about. In the Georgian language "shvili" means son of, or son, as in Johnson. "Djuga" means Jew. Therefore Djugashvili means Jewison. So Joe Stalin's real name, before he changed it, was Joe Jewison. It gets better, his name was Joseph David Djugashvili, a typical Jewish name. During his revolutionary days he changed his name to "Kochba", the leader of the Jews during one of the anti-Roman uprisings of the Jews. Russians don't change their names. Georgians don't change their names. Jews change their names. Reporting these facts probably is a hate crime because Jews hate to hear about it."
Also, since I'm here already, to those who didn't know Mr. Shamir was joking (I didn't), "Sucherbrucker" has nothing to do with the "Steele" surname. For what it's worth, Steele originated in the highlands between Scotland and England.
FromTom Demeter
Counter Point To Zionism And Jews
May I present a counter point to the argument between Zionism and Jews.
Mr. John Kaminski and J.B. Campbell tell the history of Zionism, which goes back to the time of Christ. John and J.B. are describing what a Jew called the "mystery of iniquity" two thousand years ago. We know this Jew as Apostle Paul.
The conflict between Zionism and the Jews is very complex, because it is a religious issue. This issue involves two God's, and all religions of the world, Zionist, Jews, Christians and Gentiles, and the un-seen world, what some call angels.
Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament compares the "mystery of iniquity" to the "Mystery of God." Without this knowledge of both mysteries no true and permanent solution to this conflict can be found.
This is what we learn from Paul. After the crucifixion of Jesus, God gave Israel 40 years to repent. They did not, so in 70 AD God brought in the Romans and destroyed the Temple and the nation of Israel. God left the Temple, the Jews and Judaism, and also the Christians. God hid again as before the flood, behind the Anti-god. This is researched and documented by one of the most eminent theologians of our time Dr. Ernest L. Martin. You can read his two books "Secrets of Golgotha" and "The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot"
The vacuum God left was filled by the Anti-god, who took over both religions, fulfilling many of the prophecies of the New and Old Testaments. This created the conditions religiously, legally and all other ways as it was before the flood. Judaism is the religion of the Pharisees. Christianity is the religion not of Jesus and the twelve Apostles, including Peter or Paul, but of Simon the Sorcerer of Acts 8. Simon took on the name Peter, and founded Gnosticism. Gnosticism went through a series of changes and names and became the Catholic church. Dr. Martin's book "The People History Forgot" gives a good outline of this history.
This is why when you examine the basic, fundamental doctrines of Christianity and Judaism, you will find that they both rest on the "doctrines of the Pharisees." This is a secret or "mystery," which humanity was not allowed to discover, until the very End of the World Mat.7:14; Rev.10:7. It is revealed now Mat.10:26, indicating that we are at the End of the Word Mat.24:3.
This is the foundational cause of the conflict between Zionism using the Cabala and the Jews who believe the Torah. The conflict is spilling over to all other religions and peoples, to reveal to them that really they are all have the same doctrines and aims.
The discovery that the world and all its religions are under the Anti-god, not the Creator, will make it easy for the Anti-god to unite the whole world, under him solving this conflict. This was pre-ordained before creation. This is why Jesus was slain before the foundation the earth was made Rev.13:8. Finally Jews, Christians and the Gentiles will be united under ONE GOD, to worship in ONE RELIGION, bringing a temporary PEACE.
The problem is that God the Creator also is revealing His "Mystery," originally given to Apostle Paul Eph.3:3 to a few Mat.7:14; Dan.12:10, which will cause even more conflicts, until the Anti-god will send the Anti-christ and his False Prophet. The ultimate and final conflict will be between the "few" followers of the Creator and the "many" of the Anti-god.
Since the whole world (Christianity, Judaism and all the Gentile's religions) are "deceived" Rev.12:9 and worship the Anti-god, to maintain God's system of "good and evil," God sent and is sending His "Two Witnesses" Rev.11:3 to "restore" the truth Mat.17:11 His "Mystery," first given to Apostle Paul Eph.3:3.
These Witnesses actually have four Prophets, complicating this issue.
The Creator's system is based on "sacrifice," the Anti-god's system is based on "license" or no sacrifice. God requires His followers to overcome evil with Good, by being a "living sacrifice" Gal.2:20. The Anti-god's
system gives "license to sacrifice" its enemies, or opposition.
This will cause the persecution and DEATH of the Creator's followers.
The Anti-god must persecute God's followers, and even to kill them, that these could perfect "God's sacrificial" love in them Jn.15:13, to qualify for eternal life.
When the majority of God's followers will be killed, (God will save those who "come out" of this system Rev.18:4) carnal or physical humanities' short millennium will come. This will be the total reign of the Anti-god. After this period the Bible tells us that God will instruct the Anti-god, who is God's obedient servant, as the book of Job tells us, to perform its created function; to "kill and destroy" Jn.10:10 all the Creator's "enemies" Lk.19:27; James 4:4, or all those who serve the Anti-god. This will bring the End of the World as in the days of Noah Mat.24:37.
Knowing that the End of the World is coming, as it was in Noah's day Mat.24:37, we must find the First Witness of God's Two Witnesses, who has the power to "seal us" for God's protection, to be in the resurrection without dying ICor.15:52. God prepared a "Place of Safety" Rev.12:6 for those who believe Him, to live through the coming cataclysmic events.
Tom Demeter




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