- Did Judge Roy Moore, by violating what he believed to
be unconscienable law which both violated the US Constitution and his State
Constitution set a mark for liberty with his act of civil disobedience
(for which he was dismissed as a Justice) or did he simply defy the rule
of law, seeking his own selfish, religious desires to impose a religion
upon a secular society? You be the judge...
Comments
Tracy Fallon
- Tflux@hotmail.com
11-14-03
-
- Judge Moore is no hero, hence he is no more a judge!
He violated the rule of law, the very thing these right-wing religious
whackos stand on and pummel everyone else with night and day. He's through!
If Roy had his way, everyone in America would be forced to worship his
god, his way and in the public arena. He was wrong, the justices found
him to be wrong, and they were right. There's nothing honorable about breaking
the law.
-
-
-
- Dr. Donald Florence
11-14-03
-
- As somebody who used to teach the American Civilization
sequence for the University of Illinois, I might know a thing or two about
American history, thank you.
-
- If Moore wanted to display a two-and-a-half ton monument
of the Ten Commandments in his front yard, fine. Displaying it in the statehouse
rotunda crossed the line. Implicitly or explicitly, his act suggested state
authorization, which blurs the line separating church and state. He also
broke the law by subsequently denying a federal court judge's order to
remove the monument. Please note that all eight of Moore's fellow supreme
court justices, some of whom are Christian fundamentalists themselves,
found Moore guilty on this point.
-
- People are free to believe what they wish. What is a
"legacy" for some, however, may not be a "legacy,"
for others, and in any case "legacy" does not translate into
state authorization or a justification blurring the line between separation
of church and state. There are many people in this country who are not
Christians and many Christians who are not fundamentalists. (In case you're
wondering, I happen to admire some of Jesus' ethical teachings very much,
but I don't subscribe to Christian theological dogma, even though I was
raised a fundamentalist Baptist.)
-
- The Old Testament is also the Jewish Torah, obviously,
but I don't ever recall any Jewish legislator or judge arguing that the
Ten Commandments should be displayed in a statehouse, do you?
-
- It's also worth pointing out that broader principles
of empathy, compassion, forgiveness, fair play, etc., are hardly the exclusive
province of the Judeo-Christian "legacy" or tradition (which,
in fact and in practice, has often failed miserably on that score; some
of the greatest warmongers and inquisitors in history have been "Christians").
As Mark Twain was fond of pointing out, the "golden rule" also
traces back to Confucius, and I suspect that it really traces back to the
first hominid who dimly realized that hey, that other guy has thoughts
and feelings just as I do. I might suggest a thorough study of world history,
especially ancient history, for you to gain some context and perspective
on these matters. The one-volume "A History of the World" by
highly respected Oxford professor J. M. Roberts might form a nice starting
point. Some study in assorted scientific disciplines might also prove useful
in evaluating certain beliefs and understanding why some other folks have
differing perspectives.
-
- If Mr. Moore and his fellow believers keep their religious
monuments out of public statehouses, they won't find other folks agitating
for "equal time" for monuments representing *their* religious,
philosophical, and scientific perspectives. That sounds like a good deal
to me.
-
- Sincerely yours,
-
- Dr. Donald Florence
-
-
-
- Alton Raines
11-14-03
What we have here is the classic hoodwink. Those who don't want any religious
anything want to dictate to everyone else how our society will look and
operate. So much so, that a silent stone causes them woe. That alone is
rather interesting from a theological perspective, but I digress. The Constitution
is clear. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
(that means promoting one) or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. In
other words, the state cannot encroach upon the church and the church cannot
encroach upon the state through any legal/legislative means whereby the
government authorizes or endorses a religion or forbids it either. It doesn't
say the religion must be practiced in the closet of the home of the religious
person as those on the extreme left would like us to believe. On the contrary,
our Founding Fathers opened and closed every session, as does the Supreme
Court and Congress and Senate, with a prayer to God! Why? Because the state
is authorizing one religion over another? No! Because the majority of people
adhere to that religion and their voice cannot constitutionally be silenced.
The Bill of Rights guarantees it.
I have no problem with hindu, jewish, buddhist, whatever symbols and teachings
being displayed publically as well. Religious freedom dictates that such
should be a part of our culture and society and its something we should
cherish, even venerate. But some simply want to twist the Constitution
and the history of this nation to reflect a godless humanist perspective,
and I'm sorry, I don't care how deeply piled ones PHd is, it can be piled
higher and deeper with pure crap, too. Moore practiced reasonable civil
disobedience, fully willing to suffer the consequences and he did. Just
like Rev. Martin Luther King. That is the core of this issue -- its sad
we've come so far from what the founders intended. Does a secular society
mean religious imagery, history and legacy is banned in public? It certainly
was not by the founders! Why should it be today?
-
-
-
- Gene Edinger
11-14-03
- Dear Jeff,
-
- I am appalled by the current splash screen proclaiming
Judge Roy Moore a hero of the First Amendment, the Constitution, and religious
liberty. Please note the wording in the following treaty with Tripoli which
was ratified by the United States June 10, 1797 . . . proclaimed June 10,
1797. And please consider the wording this treaty contains -- it's precise
and unambiguous about the secular nature of the USA:
-
- "Article 11. As the government of the United States
of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, -- as
it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility
of Musselmen,--and as the said States never have entered into any war or
act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties
that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption
of the harmony existing between the two countries"
To read more, see...
-
- http://www.sunnetworks.net/~ggarman/tripoli.html
-
-
- Roger Wallace
(Email witheld)
11-14-03
Roy Moore merely sought to maintain a historical symbol of our Jude-Christian
heritage. Atheist groups are now seeking to see Judge Roy disbarred! I
think its evident what this fight is really about. It's not enough for
them that he fought his conscience and took his licks, losing his job.
They want the man punished personally, destroying his career and evaporating
his ability to practice law. Every one of us with an ounce of Jeffersonian
spirit should recognize that there is a law above the law of man, be it
God's law or ones own personal convictions and conscience against evident
tyranny.
-
- Those who side against Moore are frightening examples
of political extremists who only seek the ruin of our nation. They clearly
hate all things Jude-Christian and want history revised so that a hundred
years from now, no child would ever know this nation's true history rooted
in these values and philosophies. That's serious evil!
-
-
- Name Witheld
11-14-03
Just my two cents, but -- I think Moore was obviously wrong, by law --
but right, by something bigger and more important. Truth. At one time the
law said blacks could not vote. It was wrong. It took people breaking the
law to change that. Sometimes you have to break the law. And for a judge
to do it, for something that had nothing to do with any personal gain,
is impressive. I wish we had more justices like Roy Moore.
-
- His religious beliefs are not important to me. As an
agnostic, I am not offended by the ten commandments in the courthouse.
Its just an artifact of our history, like a big painting of some founding
father. You can't walk ten feet in Washington DC without running into passages
from the Bible carved in monuments -- our taxes pay for that. Right out
in front of the UN is a quotation from Isaiah. Is that promoting a religion,
too?
-
-
-
- From Richard
11-14-03
- The phrase "separation of church and state"
is not in the Constitution. It stemmed from a personal letter of Thomas
Jefferson in which he used the phrase. The Constitution requires that there
be no state (government) religion, and simultaneously, that the state (government)
does not restrict the free exercise thereof. There's was to be no "American"
church as there was an "Anglican" church.
-
- Per the Bill of Rights, Amendment I
-
- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably
to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
-
- There is NOTHING that prohibits the state from being
religious and to be so in the context of its natural judeo-christian tradition
(one of its foundational pillars, by the way). The modern notion that this
may "offend" some sensible souls who have a different world view,
matters not one iota, so long as they aren't forced to adopt a "state
religion" as a condition of citizenship and of its privileges. The
interdict is there to allow and protect the freedom of worship for OTHER
non-judeo-christian religions. NOT to stifle the expression within the
halls of the state of the very religion upon which this state drew most
of its inspiration.
-
- The core fundamental Truth of this Nation (expressed
with an eloquence shadowed by the reality of the gallows) is that our freedoms
(endowed by our Creator) are ipso facto instilled in the citizens. These
"freedoms" are deemed inalienable (i.e., incapable of being surrendered
or transferred). The individual citizen then extends these rights to the
individual state in which he/she lives. These states in turn empower the
federal government. This is what all of our forefathers fought and died
for. The Oath was to the Constitution, not to a federal government or to
a president.
-
- The state/federal government (should) work for us, we
should not be subject to it. Citizens, through their States, created the
Federal Government, not the other way around !!! The Bill of Rights, Amendment
Ten states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states
respectively, or to the people."
-
- So, here we have Alabama's Supreme Court Chief Justice
Judge Roy S. Moore struggling for Liberty and his personal faith in God,
and the real Constitutional element is ignored by the mainstream. The truth
in this situation now is no different than an earlier truth that split
our Republic. The War Between The States (American Civil War) was fought
for one thing and one thing only: STATE'S RIGHTS ! The current issue with
Judge Moore should be framed as an issue of State's Rights. This fight
over the Ten Commandments has little to do with religion and EVERYTHING
to do with who determines our fate. Are we subjects of the FEDERAL CROWN
or are we sovereign citizens within our own sovereign states?
-
- RML
-
-
-
- From Alex Jones
11-14-03
-
- I am an unapologetic atheist, defender of civil rights,
and patriot who was relived to hear that justice had prevailed and that
Judge Moore lost his position as Attorney General of the state of Alabama
for his blatant disregard for the rule of law. No one, not even a state
attorney general, is above the law and the self righteousness, smugness,
and sense of entitelment exhibited by Mr Moore was sickening.
-
- The First Amendment guarantees the judge and everyone
else the right to acknowledge his or her gods or no gods at all in their
private life but not in a government building or in an official capacity.
His act of civil disobedenience was bold and I admire him standing up for
what he believes so strongly in as long as he was willing to accept the
consequences of his choices as he apparently was. Yes, many of the early
founders and builders of this nation were indeed Christians and while I
believe that we should recognize the religious history of our nation we
should not make that history the basis for the laws of the land for if
we did we would still have slavery and women would still be denied the
right to vote.
-
- As Americans we must be thankful and never forget that
America was founded by people of faith as a Democracy and not a Theocracy.
-
- Alex Jones
North Carolina
-
-
- From Jeff Weinhaus
11-14-03
-
- As a born again, fire baptized believer in Jesus Christ,
I say praise the LORD to the removal of the ten commandments. Psalm 111
is very clear that if the foundations be destroyed what shall the righteous
do? All I can say is look up our redeemer draws near. Jesus is coming and
all of you God haters will be able to rejoice that we are all gone, of
course you might have to dodge a few hundred pound hail stones but what
the hell no one will be here to tell you what to do with your life. The
removal of the commandments is just another sign of the times, fall mountains,
just don't fall on me! Hide your face from the wrath of the LAMB. Get saved
before it is too late!
-
- Jeff Weinhaus
-
-
- From Richard W. Blaisdell
11-14-03
-
- This country was founded on "Freedom of Religion"
not freedom from it. To deny our historical beginnings is a far larger
crime than he committed.To find someone today that will STAND for what
they and the majority of our citizens believe and be willing to not back
down is a rare quality indeed. Did he break man's law? Yes. But as others
have shared, sometimes peaceful civil disobedience is the only way to bring
to light the error of that law and with it subsequent change. What would
the detractors of this man say if he were elected governor of that state
via a write in vote. I think the people of his state have a true champion
of the people and should elect him. ALABAMA, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!
THIS MAN IS YOUR VERY BEST. Like him or not.
Richard W. Blaisdell
-
- Name Witheld
11-14-03
-
- My God Loves all of us and is most comfortable in a church
or a personal prayer, not a courthouse where people are sentenced under
the laws of this country.
-
- Judge Moore has no right to stick HIS statue in one of
OUR country's courthouses. What if you were a Jew, a Muslim, a Hidu, a
Buddhist, or even an athiest, and had to be tried in a court with a Ten-Commandments
monument in the lobby?
-
- Judge Moore passed sentence on people using our Nation's
laws without any problem. It's only when sentence was passed on him did
he decide that HIS law; "God's law", would suit him better.
-
- Judge Moore is a HYPOCRITE.
-
- Just in case somebody doesn't know why a blindfolded
lady with a scale is used to represent the most fair and just court system
on the planet:
-
- I might not be exact on this, but the blindfold represents
her blindness to superficial factors like how you are dressed, how much
money or influence you have, or what religion you represent. The scale
represents the truth, void of hypocracy.
-
- Sincerely,
- American who loves people based on their honesty and
integrity, not their religion.
San Diego, CA
-
-
- From Russ
11-14-03
-
- Smokescreen. Plain and simple. Our nation is being led
to the slaughter by corporate-minded fascist warmongers, and this "news"
story is a convenient distraction from that simple and undeniable fact.
Our country is now embroiled in the ludicrous and blatantly contrived War
On Terror to the point of exhaustion, our civil liberties are undermined
at every turn, and our jobs being exported daily to the lowest bidder.
Meanwhile, the corporate media takes this non-issue and runs with it. Of
course they do, it's what they're paid (off) to do, right?
-
- Our so-called elected government lies, steals, cheats,
and does whatever it takes to maintain their stranglehold on society, and
the corporate media helps as best they can, by keeping us distracted with
trivial nonsense. If there has ever been a separation of Church and State,
then why in the world would witnesses be routinely compelled to swear an
oath with one hand on the Christian Bible in courtrooms from sea to shining
sea?! And why oh why would such "public servants" as Mr. Moore
draw salaries of $170,000 a year?! That should be the news story, if anything:
that zealots like this are sitting in judgement of Americans like you and
me, and literally raking in our tax dollars hand over fist...while our
young men and women are wounded, crippled and killed every day in far-off
foreign lands, in military actions that have absolutely nothing to do with
our national security, unless you count the security of the NeoCons and
fascist corporate leaders in their positions of unbridled power. Right
now, they are quite secure in the notion that their "War" will
never end, and that their military-industrial-academic-pharmaceutical machine
will live long and prosper, and as it stands, they're more or less correct.
The rest of us are too overwhelmed with trying to keep our families fed,
clothed, and housed (in a system that's rigged against us) to be able to
do anything about it.
-
- Russ
-
-
- From Steven Edward Aanes
11-14-03
-
- This goes way before and beyond our stalwart good Judge
Moore. Can no one see what is happening? Answerable to no man's law? Martin
Luther King chose such a path, and rightfully so because those laws he
defied were wrong. Judge Moore also chose not to obey the tyranny of man,
yet to obey the freedom-loving instincts granted and recognized by G-d.
The federal judiciary will not judge him, or you, or anyone else, when
that most critical of judgments arrives. G-d will do the judging. Now I
digress. Can no one see the inexorable path of nibbling away at freedom's
foundation, that essential belief that a Supreme Being endowed humankind
with its inalienable rights instead of those rights being grudgingly granted
by a self-prepossessing human authority? When it becomes heresy to be a
Jew, to be a Christian, the bland, corporate New World Order will then
command: Step up and receive your tattoo. Dumbed down and disarmed, who
will then be able to resist? G-t hilfe uns!
-
- Steven Edward Aanes
Oakwood, GA
-
-
-
- From Bob Kearns
11-14-03
-
- If Ms. Fallen doesn't believe other judges are violating
the constitution and rule of law, she should see what judges get away with
in America's Family Court system. But, she is a woman so I am sure wholesale
judicial misconduct would be acceptable as long as she walks away with
the children, family assets, and a huge child support award. We need ten
thousand Judge Roy Moores to straighten this mess out.
-
- Bob Kearns
-
-
-
- From Dave Rice
- 11-14-03
-
- The 10 Commandments must never be displayed unless the
"Cross" is displayed above them.
-
- Dave Rice
- Sitka, Alaska
From Humberto Nunez
11-14-03
-
- The US Federal Government is SATANIC AND ANTI-CHRIST.
I hope the US passes more and more anti-christian laws so that the WRATH
OF THE LIVING GOD will come upon you filthy pagan Americans. And I hope
all you Americans drop dead.
-
- -Humberto Nunez
-
From CC
- 11-14-03
-
-
- One cannot blindly accept the court s decisions as upholding
constitutional rights. Should FEDERAL MONEY decide LOCAL decisions and
attitudes ?
-
- In my opinion, Judge Roy Moore's ACTION represents a
very PRECIOUS and IMPORTANT DUTY of true patriotes : one of civil disobedience
when necessary.
-
- I defend his action :
-
- - not because of any particular religious viewpoint (although
I do hold my own) - but rather to defend the liberty of religious expression
that our forefathers died for. (SILENCE is NOT EXPRESSION)
-
- Judge Moore s decision should be respected seeing as
it is not involving CORRUPTION. If the general populace isn't happy with
his decision they can petition for a vote by REFERENDUM concerning the
matter.
-
- Over-centralized government leads to CONFORMITY of BEHAVIOUR
and REPRESSION instead of personal liberty. It eventually can lead to DICTATORSHIP.
-
- The expression of CULTURAL heritage even of a religious
nature (such as monuments and plaques being displayed) shouldn't be destroyed
in the name of separation of state and religion-- that's ridiculous. Visit
Europe and you'll see it is filled with monuments of a religious nature.
No one is offended by that. It's HERITAGE.
-
- Hamurabi's law which dates back to approximately the
same time as the Ten Commandments represented much of the same laws, equally
being displayed.
-
- Are we so SOPHISTICATED in the 21st century that we would
consider HISTORICAL REFERENCES such as the above as being offensive or
outdated, and prefer amorality instead... with thought and action constantly
POLICED !!?
-
-
-
- From "Mo"
- 11-14-03
-
-
- "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" This is a direct
quote from the 1st Ammendment to the Constitution of the United States
of America. How many people can't understand the 1st ammendment? (perhaps
this shows the failings of our educational system) The first ammendment
guarantees the right of religious freedom and religious displays. It does
not discriminate against such displays in public places. If I am not mistaken,
the President of the United States is sworn in using a Bible which contains
the Ten Commandments in it. Is not Congress open each session with a prayer?
Do these instances not take place in public places? Our Country would be
in much better shape if we would take the Constitution at its face value.
Our Founding Fathers were wise enough to establish the basis of a country
that is the most powerful in the world and has been one of the only bastions
of free speech, religious freedom, and freedom of the press. Certainly
they would not considered the display of religious motifs unconstitutional
and would have supported Judge Moore in his stand. I think we should follow
their lead.
-
-
From Charles Roberts
11-14-03
-
- We may have freedom of religion, separation of church
and state, civil disobedience in the name of Christianity -
-
- But what about freedom from religion?
-
- The onerous oppression of religious belief-mongers has
done more damage to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness than any
other assault upon human progress.
-
- Nothing can be more dangerous to our self-determination
and aspirations than superstition, ignorance and the surrender of personal
spiritual authority represented by all religious movements throughout history.
-
- Judge Moore has committed a series of crimes against
humanity, and is not fit to hold any public office in any nation.
-
- -CR
-
-
-
- From Miss Ross
11-14-03
- Greetings, Please do not publish my email address.
-
- I strenuously object to your obscene depiction of Judge
Moore's right hand. While I disagree with the monument in question because
the Ten Commandments are erroneously numbered, the Judge meant well. Isn't
it ironic that our legal system, which is derived from the Ten Commandments
and other sacred scripture, is now being used to bludgeon any discussion
of religion from the public sphere?
Sincerely,
Miss Ross
-
-
-
-
- From Antonietta
11-14-03
-
- God has blessed America and judge Roy Moore is grateful.
Now the American people have pushed out God, but very soon God will judge
America.
-
- I want to thank Roy Moore!!!
- Antonietta Wheeler
-
-
From Mark
11-14-03
-
- Judge Roy Moore, perhaps is the last man standing. The
other "justices" sat down. Probably because they did not have
the moral fortitude to start the war.
-
- What war you ask? Start ,hell. It already started in
the garden of Eden. Believe what you want. But the facts , still are facts.
Man and woman started somewhere, and it might as well been the garden.
Evil influence stepped in. I call him "the Bringer of light"
Lucifer, satan, the devil, the serpent.He cohabitated with Eve , even after
God, the molder of man, told her and him not to "partake" in
the other tree. {The tree of Satans lineage.} Eve had two children, although
she concieved once with Adam, Satan, had his way too. And so on So and
still the fight betwixt good and evil rages on. It starts as a thought.Concepual
thoughts, Constitutional wranglings, legal fights to the "letter of
the law" To the point: Where has Congress established a national religion?
I must have missed it. Where does the constitution of any state or federal
say "separation of church and state",,, I must of missed it.
I for one, if I am going to be taxed, want the moral code, such as the
ten commandments, displayed publicly. It may help keep crime lower. I believe
the precise reason the country is in such a terrible financial state, as
so are the states themselves, is because they operate with "elected
"officials that have NO moral code except the "almighty buck".
What some see as the decline of this once, GOD fearing nation,is what they
see. P.S. It may be "legal" to have an abortion, But it is still
unlawfull to take a life. You see, everything that has been made "legal"
must of been UNLAWFULL at one time................
-
- Mark's ramblings
-
-
-
- From "Trucker"
11-14-03
Hey Jeff....Might the contry be a better place if Judge Roy More was president....!!??
He should run in the next ellection...let us all see just how many anti
GOD people are here....!! The whole thing has turned into a scandle.....!!
Let the people decide the outcome....Then they could all decide on the
87 billion $$ this country is giveing away for free when there are so many
places cutting back here....What about the fire depts...the police depts...the
schools....here...!!?? Every night on the news something else is closeing....all
the cities around here are cutting back on everything....All the jobs are
going too....People are hideing in their own homes for fear of their neighbors....!!
The city crime issue would decrease a bit...(I bet)...if we refused to
put all the garbage they call music now cramen in our childerns faces (and
ears)..!! The morels in this country are takeing a dive into an empty pool.....!!
I'd just bet Judge Roy More has a few ideas that could really help us all....!!
Keep up the good work....!!
Trucker.....
-
-
-
- From Clinton Kew
11-14-03
-
- The First Amendment says congress can't tell you to put
the Ten Commandments on public property, NOR can it tell you that you CAN'T.
That's what it says.
Signed:
- Somebody that didn't have to go to Harvard Law School
to figure out if Bill Clinton had sex with what's her name.
-
-
-
- From Lazel Hamilton
11-14-03
- All the great men of history were criminals, because
all the righting of wrongs required violating the evil, mindless laws imposed
by oppressors of truth. I think it's funny (and sad) how the left wing
rally around freedom and liberty for homosexuals and every kind of lunatic
there is, but someone who believes in God and adheres to moral absolutes
is someone to silence. They are truly the most hypocritical of people.
They want to tell everyone else how to live by laws and rules they literally
make up on the spot! At least when they accuse the right wing of wanting
to impose its "morality" on the populace, the right is pulling
from millennia-proven law with enormous history -- if not truly divine
origins. You know, little nothing laws like don't kill... don't steal...
don't lie. Those laws these left wing hypocrites never want to be reminded
of because they support abortion rights, the murder of millions of people.
They are, to be blunt, mass murderers. Thieves and liars, hypocrites so
blinded by their own evil that they have the unmitigated audacity to attempt
to inculcate their wickeness as social normalcy! They exhibit what Paul
called 'The Mystery of Lawlessness."
-
- They want a law unto themselves, by their own invention.
No input from God. But isn't it interesting, that if people live according
to those 10 commandments, you have peace, happiness, health, prosperity
and sanity? And those who chose not to... well, just take a look around
you!!! The proof is evident. Those who deny and reject God, will suffer
the consequence. And this is it:
-
|
