- The following postings are from the Pravda.ru bbs Forum
- posted 11-28-2001 20:43
- I read the Mexican papers, because I go to Mexico every
day, where I work. I remember very clearly when this story came out and
it was big scandal in Mexico, and it was covered by the papers there every
day, plus it was a lead story on the main TV channels, TV Azteca and Televisa.
Anyone who was in Mexico at the time knows this is so.
- So I would say this: anyone who denies this is has an
agenda and is trying to cover up pthe truth. All of this cheap talk about
racism is typical reactionary bullshit.
- It was a front page story on practically every newspaper
in the country, and it was commented on by columnists in the op-ed pages.
Suddenly the story just died, about the time that the suspects were released
by the Mexican attorney general who gave no explanation for his reasons,
but who was obviously acting under pressure from the Israeli embassy.
- posted 11-29-2001 11:16
- This is from El Universal dated Oct 11, 2001. This is
the same story I read in the Diario de Chihuahua. This reporting went on
for several days. This is a followup story reporting that the claims fo
the Israelis that that they were licenced to carry arms and that they worked
for a security firm didn't check out, that these claims were false:
- Detenido en San L?zaro tiene licencia para arma El guardia
de seguridad cuenta con un permiso expedido por la Defensa. Carece PGR
de datos del supuesto ex militar israel? Sauar Ben Zvi. No figura en los
registros a nivel local o federal de empresas de seguridad privada
- Jorge Alejandro Medell?n
- El guardia de seguridad Salvador Guersson Smecke, detenido
hace dos d?as en el interior de la C?mara de Diputados junto con el supuesto
ex militar israel? Sauar Ben Zvi, cuenta con una licencia para portar un
arma calibre 9mm. expedida por la Secretar?a de la Defensa Nacional (SDN),
con vigencia del 31 de diciembre de este a?o. Se trata de una licencia
"individual" tramitada ante la SDN a principios de este a?o y
concedida por la dependencia hace unos meses. Fuentes de la Procuradur?a
General de la Rep?blica se?alaron que Salvador Guersson es el ?nico de
los dos detenidos que est? debidamente registrado ante la Secretar?a de
- "Pero de la otra persona, que no estaba armada,
no tenemos datos claros y seguimos investigando", afirmaron.
- De hecho, EL UNIVERSAL confirm? que el nombre de Sauar
Ben Zvi no figura en ninguno de los registros a nivel local o federal de
empresas de seguridad privada.
- Visto bueno de la SDN
- Con la aprobaci?n de la Defensa Nacional, Guersson Smecke
acudi? junto con el representante legal de la empresa Desarrollo de Sistemas
de Seguridad Privada a la Direcci?n de Registro de Empresas de Seguridad
Privada de la Secretar?a de Seguridad P?blica (SSP) para informar sobre
el otorgamiento del permiso individual.
- Dicha empresa est? registrada ante esa direcci?n con
el n?mero 486 desde hace poco m?s de un a?o y funciona de manera normal,
cumpliendo ante la ley con todos los requisitos de operatividad exigidos,
incluso el de las solicitudes para partaci?n de armas de manera colectiva
- En el caso de dicha empresa, el permiso se otorg? de
manera individual a determinados guardias de seguridad. La SDN accedi?
ya que cumpl?an todos los requisitos exigidos.
- Mientras tanto, la Procuradur?a General de la Rep?blica
(PGR) contin?a investigando a los dos detenidos dentro de la averiguaci?n
previa y AP/1115/B-2001.
- El Universal has a feature where you can get the entire
editon by dates. at
- This discussion started several weeks ago here after
someone posted a story from DEBKA files claiming that 10 Syrian terrorists
were caught trying to blow up the Mexican congress and that they were planning
to kill Fox while they were at it. When some of us pointed out that this
was a new twist on the well-known story (in Mexico) of these Israelis,
we were all called Nazis and liars and all of the usual taunts.
- posted 11-29-2001 11:23
- Correction: This is one of the stories I read in the
the Heraldo, but it isn't the same one I was thinking of. This is one that
resulted after the coverup started!
- posted 11-29-2001 11:36
- So what are we suggesting? I fail to see what the Israeli's
would want in
- Mexico?!?!? It is a third world nation no? (No offence)
Yet, I fail to see
- what they would want. I am not denying that the news
report is true..or
- factual..I am just at a loss to describe what they would
want to do in
- Mexican parliament?<br>
- posted 11-29-2001 11:58
- Anyway, I would like to know how a statement that "According
- by elements of the legislative security staff, the suspects
- explosives, nine grenades, bullets and a detonator"
could be so easily
- reversed. That sure looks like a coverup to me!
- posted 11-29-2001 12:30
- Okay, here is one of the original stories, at http://www.cronica.com.mx/2001/oct/13/nacional15.html
- And it does state "Como se recordar?, Sar Ben Zui,
fue detenido, junto con otro sujeto, cuando ambos iban presuntamente armados
al interior de la C?mara de Diputados.
- "Seg?n versiones de elementos de seguridad del recinto
legislativo, los sospechosos portaban armas, barras explosivas, nueve granadas,
cartuchos ?tiles y un cargador."
- - which I concur with the above translation which says
"As will be remembered, Sar Ben Zui Was detained, with another subject,
when both were allegedly armed inside the House of Representatives.
- "According to statements by elements of the legislative
security staff, the suspects carried arms, explosives, nine grenades, bullets
and a detonator."
- How they could turn around and say that they only had
one pistol and that it was registered and then not make any statements
as to how this is completely contradictory with what had been reported
earlier - this points to a blatant coverup - and I would like to see some
better explanation than these cheap accusations of a racist plot. There
was a plot afoot alright: a plot to plant a bomb!
- Let's talk about a motive now, why don't we. The motive
was to get the Mexican people, who have been lampooning Fox and Castaneda
mercilessly for their declarations that they were standing shoulder to
shoulder with Bush, to swing around against the muslim world, and they
thought this would be just the ticket. It seems that the Reichstag fire
mentality is really big with the Mossad these days!
- Also, let's get back to the DEBKA files story that attempted
to use this incident as the basis for a complete disinformation ploy. How
come all of Israel's defenders on the boards here jumped into that stupid
polemic with both feet - saying that DEBKA was right and that the idea
that the original story said the terrorists were Israelis and not Syrians
was more racist propaganda? Those people have no regard for the truth.
They want to lie as much as they can get by with, and when they get caught,
they start screaming about racism.
- Now this version that is reported in Cronica, which I
went to the trouble to find the original complete story with the link and
everything, is one version of the same story that was on television and
in all of the major papers complete with editorials as the drama played
out. The players who were there - the people who caught them, for instance
- were interviewed. It was on television. TV Azteca and Televisa. There
could hardly have been any racist plot to give Israel a black eye for this.
But it would not be unusual for there to be a subsequent coverup and whitewash,
and disappearance fo the story from the news, which is exactly what happened.
What is clear, however, is that a very unresolved contradiction arose between
the initial reports and the results of the whitewash, and that the DEBKA
files attempt to salvage something from this looks suspicious indeed, as
if they decided that they would at least try and sqeeze some propaganda
benefit out of their little failed effort on the part of the Mossad.
- I remember reading several stories and editorials in
the Heraldo de Chihuahua and the Diario de Chihuahua at the time, although
since this was a month ago, it is hard to remember what all was actually
said, but there was a point when a whitewash emerged, followed by a complete
cessation in reporting or commentary.
- Meanwhile, while you are surfing Cronica's website, check
out the message boards and see what public opinion in Mexico is really
like concerning the war, in spite of what Fox and Castaneda are saying!
You might have a look at what Mexicans think of Israel while you are at
it. These items will give you some clues as to what the Mossad's motives
were in this attempt of theirs.
- posted 11-29-2001 12:45
indymedia discussion of validity links to discussion of credibility of
information on Israeli indymedia site.
- posted 11-29-2001 12:49
- This is an editorial from the period, which points to
the fact of a coverup. The editors are saying that they want to know the
truth about why someone was caught inside the seante armed and with spy
equipment and no explanation, and they aslo want to know who is protecting
them and who is covering up the facts, and suggesting that if the truth
came out it would be an emabassment. This is from the front page of the
Cronica on Oct 12.:
- Qu? pas? con el agente extranjero que estaba armado en
la C?mara de Diputados? No es cosa menor: fotografiar dirigentes ca?eros,
portar aparatos electr?nicos para espionaje, y una tremenda pistola 9 mil?metros
al cinto... en la sede del Congreso. A cualquier mexicano que lo encuentren
as?, estar?a hundido. Este se?or, ?no? ?De qu? polic?a es? ?Para qui?n
trabaja? ?Qui?n lo protege? D?ganlo, aunque eso apene a los partidos en
- ***************** Okay I am going to answer downunda's
- Shortly after the 9/11 incident, Gallup took a poll in
a a lot of countries, and it turned out that in all of Latin America, support
was very low for the planned US war effort. Mexico had the lowest margin
of support, with only 2% of the population in favor of a war. This probably
dropped to even less than that shortly after the poll was taken when Mexican
papers revealed the connections between the Bush and Bin Laden families,
and much hay was made of that by editorialists.
- Meanwhile, Mexican president Vicente Fox and foreign
minister Jorge Castaneda (whose mother is Jewish, by the way) declared
that Mexico was behind Bush and that they would even send troops if Bush
wanted them to. This was met with outrage in Mexico, and since Mexico is
actually the most influential country in Latin America, all of the reacting
taken place must have been seen as a bad sign for those who had a vested
interest in the progress of the war party.
- This has been discussed as the only possible reason for
the attempted terrorist act on the part of the Israelis.
- There can be no sweeping under the rug of the fact that
this was widely reported and that a lot of editorializing took place and
which direction the editorials took. This is what I have been describing.
- Mexico may be a "third world country", but
it has a huge border with the US and Hispanics are the largest minority
in the US, of which Mexicans make up the largest block. Latin America is
rather homogenous, with Mexico being the cultural and public opinion giant
of the Latin world, in spite of the disparaging assessment it may get from
its northern neighbor. drutherford posted 11-29-2001 15:16 Talk about
your "Get out of jail free cards". Having bombs and guns on their
persons wasn't quite enough evidence to hold them, I guess.
- The American watchdog press apparently missed this one.
Again. Nothing slips by the American Press.
- Could Israelis have possibly been involved in the WTC
attack as well?????
- From www.rense.com
- Mossad Agents Arrested In Attempt To Bomb
- Mexican Congress
- From the PGR (Mexican Department Of Justice) official
web site comes an interesting story.
- As reported in La Vox De Aztlan, two men, one of them
a former Israeli Colonel and Mossad agent, were arrested INSIDE the Mexican
congress carrying 9mm pistols and dynamite, but were released following
intense pressure from the Israeli Embassy.
- Army General and Head of the PGR Releases Two Israelis
Arrested With Guns and Explosives Inside the Mexican Congress By Ernesto
Cienfuegos La Voz de Aztlan October 15, 2001
- Read the rest of the article here:
- "What were the Israelis up to? We think we know.
The Vicente Fox government has been very careful of involving Mexico in
a war against Islam. The Mexican population as well as the two major opposition
political parties, the PRI and the PRD will not allow it. President Bush
and the U.S. Zionists want Mexico fully involved in the war principally
because if things get tough in the middle east and the oil rich Arabs leave
the coalition, the U.S. military machine is going to need alternative sources
of oil and PEMEX is just across the border. We believe that the two Zionists
terrorist were going to blow up the Mexican Congress. The second phase
was to mobilize both the Mexican and US press to blame Osama bin Laden.
Most likely then Mexico would declare war on Afghanistan as well, commit
troops and all the oil it could spare to combat Islamic terrorism."
- Comment from a Rense reader
- From Mario Andrade
- Hello Jeff,
- I want to congratulate you in every way for posting the
articles on your website. When I read the article about the Mossad agents
caught trying to bomb the Mexican congress, I almost jumped out of my chair.
I was SHOCKED. I couldn't believe it, so I went to the PGR website and
- IT'S ALL TRUE! It's 100% accurate! You've nailed it!
The guys that learned about this should get an award for reporting it.
This proves your suspicions about Mossad involvement, or at least knowledge
about 9-11. Do you remember the group of Israelis taking pictures and video
from a roof top as the twin towers were burning to the ground? I could
be wrong, but I believed you mentioned that during a Barry Chamish's appearance
in your program.
- WHERE ARE THE MAJOR NEWS NETWORKS ON THIS? They are all
too busy promoting the Time-Warner-AOL-CNN Harry Potter movie or reporting
on "the anthrax scare" (they call it scare because they're the
ones scaring people). It's amazing how we can better rely on websites like
yours for accurate news. It seems like we need to dig the truth out on
our own all the time.
- This media blackout is nothing less than the New World
Order at work. Here we have two Israelis with explosives, grenades and
guns caught inside the legislative chamber of the Mexican congress, and
yet, NOTHING is mentioned in the news; not even in Mexico.
- Without a doubt, these two suspects will be released.
The PGR (Attorney General) website in Mexico does not list in "plain
language" the charges for the suspects. It lists the "penal codes".
They are the following: Violation of articles 123 and 143 of the General
Law of Population in accordance with the sixth and seventh dash 1, 8, 9,
and 13 of the federal penal code. This means that unless you're a lawyer
in Mexico, you won't have any clue as for what they mean. This is how they
let criminals go free all the time. Those codes could be bogus or made
up, but the population is so dumbed down and ignorant that they will buy
this without bothering to question it.
- THIS IS WHERE WE'RE HEADING IN AMERICA: TOTAL IGNORANCE
AND SUBMISSIVENESS OF THE POPULATION AND TOTAL CONTROL OF THOSE IN POWER.
- Please keep up the excellent work and thanks for informing
us about what's really going on.
- Best wishes,
- Mario Andrade
- The PGR website page
- Systran translation page
- Aztlan.net story
- Zionist Terrorists Arrested
- Inside Mexican Congress
- MOSSAD Colonel Salvador Guersson Smecke and Saur Ben
Zvi were armed and
- carrying bomb materials
- Read it here
- posted 11-29-2001 16:14
- The page from the Procuraduria General de la Republica
proves the story to be true. Now it is very sad, that for some this story
must have been invented by hate groups. And is not accepted as true, because
it deos not fit into ones explanations of what is going on. THIS is known
as fascist thinking.
- posted 11-29-2001 21:41
- That is exactly what I am saying. The people who initially
reported that had bombs in their possession were the security people there
at the Mexican Congress who arrested them. Therefor, this evidence would
have had to go into the report wherin the initial charges were based, and
that cannot be destroyed or altered. Any revisions and disclaimers which
pretend to deny or circumvent that have to be patently false.
- So, the story from Oct 11, 2001 is indeed a coverup,
and the initial storie and editorials reflect the facts.
- posted 11-30-2001 07:55
- Ben Zvi was probably held for "possession of arms
or explosives for the exclusive use of the military". I will look
into that and see what those infractions are. My brother in law is a Mexican
lawyer and he fights those cases all the time, so he will know what that
is. That explains the language on the PRG site where it says he was "consigned
to the judge of the first instance". If he were not charged with something
that would allow him to make bail, he would have just bailed out. If not,
he would have to wait for a hearing, and then he would likely get and "auto
formal de prision" which is where you are held without bail.
- So, if he was charged as such, as it would appear, then
he did have the things that the guards in the senate building stated he
had. If he got out of jail in spite of that, then this is highly irregular.
- posted 12-01-2001 04:12
- "Violation of articles 123 and 143 of the General
Law of Population in accordance with the sixth and seventh dash 1, 8, 9,
and 13 of the federal penal code."
- I looked these up on a CD that contains Mexican laws
at my brother-in-law's law office. The only one of these statutes mentioned
that concerns an actual infraction is the article 123, which is concerned
with being in the country illegally, not having entered on any kind of
visa. In other words, Ben Zvi was smuggled into the country somehow, and
did not go through any sort of Mexican immigration checkpoint either at
a border or at an airport for instance, and he had no papers on file indicating
how he came into the country, and this is a crime. Article 143 states that
the prosecution of the crime has to be under the guidelines of Mexican
immigration statutes, and the other clauses cited are simply adminstrative
- So, the only thing that Ben Zvi, then, is actually charged
with is the illegal and clandestine entry into the country.
- My brother-in-law is of the opinion that this is a "jalada",
as he calls it, which is where, in this case anyway, a prosecution document
is substituted in the file in place of the original, the substitute being
designed to get the suspects off, but at the same time to give cause for
their having arrested in the first place, thus covering the tails of the
police and prosecutors.
- Again, I would point out that the biggest inconsistency
is that they were initially arrested by the guards at the Mexican senate,
San Lazaro, and that it was reported that they had "two 9mm pistols,
nine grenades, explosives, three detonators and 58 bullets", such
that the status as reported by the PGR that Guersson Smecke had a pistol
which was duly registered and therefor he was released, while Ben Zvi is
declared not to have been armed is simply not explained away very easily
by these theories that these reports just arose as a result of some speculation
or some racist reasons. They were reported because they had such things,
and the denials in the press that occurred later and the omission in the
PGR report are as a result of pressure and bribery.
- Another report surfaced at one point - I have not seen
it myself, but my BIL told me about it - wherin it was reported that, in
order to give an explanation as to what, exactly, they were doing in San
Lazaro in the first place - they are reported to have said that they were
going to demonstrate to the Mexican authorities that their security was
inadequate. The idea was to try and get some kind of contract for providing
security. One inconsistancy with that is that they were not able to show
any record of their having contacted anyone or made any reports concerning
such a plan, indicating that this cover story was made up after the fact.
Another inconsistancy is this: Why would a person who was inside the country
illegally - someone who had been smuggeled into the country unknown to
the authorities - be involved in some proposed business with the government
itself? On the other hand, if Ben Zvi was in fact a terrorist, he would
have planned on being smuggled out just as he had been smuggled in, therefor
leaving no record of his having come or gone.
- posted 12-01-2001 13:15
- Old news, but I will leave some additional comments.
- This story is true, it is not a hoax. It was first reported
by NOTIMEX, Mexico's official news agency. And later confirmed officially
by the PGR (a government ministry).
- The israeli vice-minister of foreign relations appeared
in Mexico City a couple of days later. The president and his top advisors
were in a visit to Europe. Then the "cover-up" started and no
one has ever heard of it since. Closed doors since the incident at the
Israeli embassy and a veil of silence, of course.
- The "official" excuse was that these two israelies
had a meeting to sell security services to Congress... But of course, 9mm
armed salemen!!! BTW One of the israelies DID NOT speak spanish, at all!!!
- Why Mexico? Well, one reason was mentioned here and that
was support of the war and further wars, the door to latinamerica. Another
reason is that Mexico's economy is stable and has very high dollar reserves
and it is U.S. second trading partner. (The U.S. hot-air filled economy
is recessing or deflating of course). It shares a 2,000 mile border. And
the main reason is of course Oil and possibly even Uranium.
- Mexico suported a lot of the labor during WW-II as well
as much of the oil needed in the U.S. Remember that this all happened before
Russia became "friends" with Bush.
- About a week ago, a close friend received an e-mail from
a congress person thanking him for the information provided about the Glock
9mm and the Israeli defense and mossad service. As well as an article about
mossad high tech gadgets that are meant to look like useless trinkets.
- The e-mail reads: