- Okay, Ms. Know-it-all, I'm going to weigh in this irritating,
holier-than-thou debunking you've been engaging in for so long. I'm sick
of it.
-
- A.H. Not always true. Contrails have been noted - even
since the WWII era - to spread out and develop into cirrus-like clouds.
I have read this fact in many scientific reports concerning contrails.
-
- So provide a list of those "many scientific reports
concerning contrails," you claim to have read.
-
- A.H. And where do you hear of these reports of alleged
"chemtrails" causing sore throats and aching lungs? Haven't been
finding them in the medical journals. The CDC hasn't been reporting them.
-
- Just because the CDC isn't reporting them, is not proof
that people are not coming down with these symptoms. Personally, I'd believe
the hundreds, even thousands of anecdotal reports from real people, rather
than what the CDC ISN'T reporting. Get real. Do you think the CDC wouldn't
be in on the program? Don't be so naive.
-
- A.H. You usually find these kinds of reports on chemtrails
lists and lists that cater to conspiracy theories.
-
- There you go with the catch phrase marginalization again.
"Conspiracy theories" can be based on facts, just as easily as
they can be based on fictions. Just because you label it so, doesn't mean
it is so. This is a classic cheap shot trick of the debunker.
-
- A.H. Those who frequent these lists often experience
(or think they experience) alleged maladies because they BELIEVE they are
being "sprayed" by "chemtrails" they BELIEVE they see
overhead. When I stopped BELIEVING the contrails I witnessed (and photographed
and video taped) were deliberate attempts to spread something over the
populations below, I began to SEE the contrails as they really are not
what I believed them to be or was TOLD to believe by those into Chemtrail/conspiracy
theories.
-
- This entire paragraph is utter babbling nonsense. What
YOU believe is irrelevant to what hundreds and thousands of others are
witnessing. How arrogant and downright stupid of you to summarily dismiss
all these witnesses' reports as artifacts of what they "BELIEVE."
Lame, baby. Lame
-
- A.H. If these so-called "chemtrails" were actually
causing as much illness as Chemtrailists are reporting, don't you think
we'd be hearing about it on the news? People should be dropping like flies
- but they are not.
-
- Oh, that's rich! So, just because we are not seeing reports
in "the news," that means these events are not happening. Hey
genius, are you aware of who controls the news in this country? So if it
isn't on Dan Rather or Tom Brokaw, it isn't real. That's a really enlightened,
objective view of reality. Pathetic. By the way, people ARE dropping like
flies from unknown upper and lower respiratory infection for the last couple
of years, in case you haven't heard. The CDC can provide you with those
statistics, if you'd bother to check. There was a virtual epidemic last
winter that DID make "the news." Where were you?
-
- A.H. When I asked Chemtrailists for information to verify
alleged lab results, I got nothing. When I asked for phone numbers and
qualifications of the "official" lab technicians involved, there
was no answer.
-
- Give us the names of some of those "Chemtrailists"
-- and there you go again using derogatory hot button words to immediately
marginalize people whose beliefs differ from yours -- you supposedly spoke
to. I don't believe you.
-
- A.H. Often my inquiries were met with huge jpgs of contrails
criss-crossing the sky which are not proof of anything. I already have
more than a hundred photographs and hundreds of feet of video footage of
just about every phenomenon reported in connection with contrails.
-
- Hey genius, since when do commercial airliners fly in
formation, and engage in systematic criss-cross flight patterns? Show me
one instance. And if it's not commercial airliners, then it's got to be
military aircraft. Now, oh so brilliant one, why in the hell would the
military be spending huge amounts of resources and manpower flying military
aircraft in such widespread and unusual formations? Maybe you better study
those "hundred photographs and hundreds of feet of video footage'
a bit more carefully, and objectively. Capiche?
-
- I could go on, but as far as convincing YOU of anything,
I'm not interested. Your mind has obviously been made up. I'm more concerned
about the people out there that you are trying to convince there is nothing
at all to the chemtrail issue. You are quite simply flat out dead wrong.
And no amount of hard evidence will convince you of that fact. That is
why I strongly suspect that you have another agenda entirely, when it comes
to your tiresome debunking of this most important phenomenon. I will not
waste anymore of my valuable time responding to your arrogant proclamations.
I'd suggest others out there do the same. It's a big waste of time. Time
will inevitably prove you dead wrong. _____
-
-
-
- "A. Hebert" wrote:
-
- Real contrails only form at 30,000 feet and above and
we see many of these at 10,000 feet and below !
-
- Dear Tom:
-
- With all due respect I am trying to get some direct answers.
-
- How do you know the exact altitude of the contrails you
observe?
-
- Are you measuring these altitudes with instruments or
are your calculations based on estimations via observations with the naked
eye and/or binoculars?
-
- Real contrails dissipate in about ten minutes, These
spread out and last for hours !
-
- Not always true. Contrails have been noted - even since
the WWII era - to spread out and develop into cirrus-like clouds. I have
read this fact in many scientific reports concerning contrails. Just because
they persist (NASA calls them "Persistant Contrails") does not
prove they contain biochemicals or are deliberately "sprayed"
on people to cause illness.
-
- People develop sore throats and aching lungs (from personal
experience) while looking at them !
-
- And where do you hear of these reports of alleged "chemtrails"
causing sore throats and aching lungs? Haven't been finding them in the
medical journals. The CDC hasn't been reporting them.
-
- You usually find these kinds of reports on chemtrails
lists and lists that cater to conspiracy theories.
-
- Those who frequent these lists often experience (or think
they experience) alleged maladies because they BELIEVE they are being "sprayed"
by "chemtrails" they BELIEVE they see overhead. When I stopped
BELIEVING the contrails I witnessed (and photographed and video taped)
were deliberate attempts to spread something over the populations below,
I began to SEE the contrails as they really are not what I believed them
to be or was TOLD to believe by those into Chemtrail/conspiracy theories.
-
- If these so-called "chemtrails" were actually
causing as much illness as Chemtrailists are reporting, don't you think
we'd be hearing about it on the news? People should be dropping like flies
- but they are not.
-
- When I asked Chemtrailists for information to verify
alleged lab results, I got nothing. When I asked for phone numbers and
qualifications of the "official" lab technicians involved, there
was no answer. When I ask direct questions as to how one KNOWS the exact
altitudes of these contrails or KNOWS, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that
sniffing the air when these "chemtrails" are overhead causes
sore throats and every illness one can imagine, there are only vague, repetitive
answers that do not address anything having to do with verification of
information for scientific study.
-
- Often my inquiries were met with huge jpgs of contrails
criss-crossing the sky which are not proof of anything. I already have
more than a hundred photographs and hundreds of feet of video footage of
just about every phenomenon reported in connection with contrails. I fail
to see how a photograph or video still of a contrail proves it is a "chemtrail"
or how a photograph of a plane leaving a contrail automatically proves
it is a "spray plane" yet every Chemtrail website one goes to
is covered in these images.
-
- In reference to claims of UFOs being photographed or
video taped in or near contrails/chemtrails, I have captured dozens of
"UFOs" in my own photographs and video tapes of contrails but
had enough sense to know the difference between a bird, a bug or a plane
and a real UFO. I spent half my summer putting these images into the computer
so others could use them for comparison with similar images found while
photographing/video taping contrails (small sample at "http://Yellowrose_4.tripod.com").
With 4 books in the process, I took time away from my work to provide information
to help others learn how to identify how birds, bugs, debris and conventional
aircraft can appear from different angles and distances so false identifications
can be avoided. Did it help? Well, let me put it this way, those with similar
photos of "UFOs" were invited to speak at a MUFON conference
and various radio shows but no one invited me to talk about my non-UFOs.
Truth does not always sell and it may not be what we want to hear but I'll
take truth and anonymity any day over the alternatives.
-
- My attempts to share what I have learned about the contrail/chemtrail
issue through my own studies have been met with accusations, threats, harassment
and rumors - from the Chemtrailists! They do onto others the very things
they accuse our governments of. If there is all this "proof"
or "evidence" linking contrails/chemtrails to illnesses in people,
then why can't I find it? Why are only those into the Chemtrail theories
able to see the "proof" they believe in?
-
- The answer to that question is obvious.
-
- I studied the contrail/chemtrail issue for more than
a year and I resent being distracted by the unverified and unfounded claims.
I spent a lot of my time learning all I could about the contrail/chemtrail
issue only to finally realized it was a bunch of hype and alarmist foo-fah.
It's because I devoted so much of my time to conduct a thorough study of
contrails and chemtrail claims that I feel confident in my conclusions
and continue to share them with those still able and willing to think for
themselves.
-
- Just for the record: I do not wish to see the Skywatch
UFO lists turned into soapboxes for every wild conspiracy theory that comes
along. That is NOT what the Colonel intended when he started Skywatch and
it is NOT what he and I intended when we founded Skywatch International.
The study of UFOs and related issues always was and always should be the
major focus of Skywatch.
-
- A. Hebert
-
- Comment
-
- Chemtrail Debunking And The Lunatics On Both Sides From
Sam Weikel WildKarma <wildkarma@sprintmail.com
10-26-00
-
- Okay, first things first. Yes, I am a skeptic. Not
just of the "Chemtrail Conspiracy" but of everything. As I watch
the mainstream media, and read the mainstream print media and listen to
the mainstream radio, and read the alternative media, and listen to the
alternative radio, it seems that it doesn't matter what is happening there
is a conspiracy behind it.
-
- No one believes in coincidence anymore.
-
- Now, the the first thing that has to be understood about
a skeptic, a true skeptic, is that we look at both sides of the issue.
We are able to see the pros and cons of both sides and from there make
a decision. Granted, more times than not, the decision is to remain skeptical.
-
- So, on to the Chemtrails.
-
- Now here in lies the problem. In your debunking debate
between Kim Burrafato and A. Herbert you have two zealots on opposite sides
of an issue.
-
- Burrafato says that Herbert's problem is that he refused
to accept the truth no matter what evidence is given. So I ask, would
she accept evidence that chemtrails are nothing dangerous?
-
- The problem grows wider when you realize that where Herbert
may not have any hard data to back up his statements, neither does Burrafato.
Here is what I know about chemtrails. Not a damned thing. I have seen
contrail type formations in the sky. I have seen contrail type formations
that have criss crossed and remained in the sky much longer than what is
typically known as a contrail.
-
- I know that I live in an area, the Pacific Northwest
(Salem, OR to be specific) that at one time recently was prominately written
about as a "Heavy spray area". I also know that I have yet to
experience an respiratory difficulties other than the normal lung butter
created by smoking.
-
- Okay, now, that should cover the "I don't believe
in the bunk" side of the argument.
-
- Now for the supporting argument. On this side I have
less to say, because when it comes down to it, there is no way to truly
prove that there is a chemtrail conspiracy. However, for someone such
as myself that has a photographic memory and is able to draw logical links
to bits of seemingly unconnected data, there is something large to offer.
-
- I can not give you the exact month, day or time, but
in Fall 1998 when at home in Tallahassee, FL (where I lived before moving
the Pacific Northwest) I was watching NBC news. There was a story about
how contrails affect weather patterns. The story was short, maybe 10 minutes,
and showed a weather satellite video of a plane making a figure eight that
stretched from the gulf coast of Texas/Louisiana north to Oklahoma. They
went into great detail about how the military had to use up it's fuel for
a given year before the next budget came out and how to ensure that the
fuel was used they would fly what was not normally considered "their
flight path."
-
- The video showed the figure eight as it moved west and
stretched and eventually merged with a storm front.
-
- That was supposed the first part of a multi-part story.
The next installment never aired.
-
- So, after writing this little diatribe, I am forced to
go back to my initial statement. I'm a skeptic. An open minded skeptic,
but a skeptic none the less.
-
- Want to win me over? Give unto me hard evidence. Not
amateur video made by Blanche in Walla Walla, Washington. Not a poorly
taken amateur photograph by Bob in Middleofnowhere, Arkansas. Not anonymous
reports from some one who claims to be Military or NASA. Hard evidence.
Verifiable, authentic, irrefutable, solid proof.
-
- Because, until then, all you have is a theory. A theory
that at best sounds credible, but unrealistic. At worst it sounds delusional.
-
- Just a few words of wisdom from someone who is tired
of the zealots, on both sides.
-
- Sam Weikel
-
- Nuclear Winter Graphics and Design http://members.tripod.com/~WildKarma
email: wildkarma@sprintmail.com fax: (603) 415-0418
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