- Dear Jeff -
-
- Over time, as so many of your writers have made degrogatory
claims regarding Judaism, Torah or the Talmud, perhaps the time has come
for a public debate on what the Talmud and Torah Judaism really stands
for.
-
- I and Rabbi Marvin Antelman have decided to issue a public
challenge to any of your writers or readers who would like to debate us
as to what exists in the Talmud and what the true meaning of Judaism is.
-
- Therefore- we issue a public challenge who wishes to
join the debate. We would the opportunity to reply to any comment or claim
your writers or readers have about the Judaism, the Torah or the Talmud.
We will study the text in question- and offer our interpretations as to
what the true meaning of these texts are.
-
- We await to hear from any of your readers regarding any
tractate in the Talmud or the Torah.
-
- Joel Bainerman (Zichron Yaacov, Israel)
- Rabbi Marvin Antelman (Rehovot, Israel)
-
-
-
- From Anonymous
- 2-9-4
-
- The Laws Against Non-Jews - By Israel Shahak
-
- http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jewhis5.htm#The%20Laws%20Against%20Non-Jews
-
-
-
- From
- Michael Hoffman
hoffman@hoffman-info.com
2-8-4
-
- Let's Have a Real Debate
-
- The bottom line is: I have already taken on Talmudic"
lawyers" like this duo, online, via e-mail. My former opponents lied,
obstructed, dodged and weaved, just like their brother Talmudists do in
a court of "law." It's not a debate.
-
- I want a true debate, where we meet before a live audience
in a major city in the US where my colleagues and friends of truth can
also be present. In that way, when these "lawyers" try to weasel
out of one powerful dose of reality after another, they can be cross-examined
and exposed, confronted with their evasions and brought to heel and this
can only be accomplished in person.
-
- My online exchange with a host of Judaics was published
in the book, "Hoffman Contra the Khazars" available for sale
at our website. So this has already been done, by this writer at least.
Let's move on to the next stage-- a live, videotaped debate. I'm not interested
in anything less.
-
- Sincerely,
-
- Michael A. Hoffman II
-
- Author: "Judaism's Strange Gods"
-
- http://www.revisionisthistory.org/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?p_id=20
-
-
- Comment
- From Kieth Norman
- 2-9-4
-
- Dear Jeff,
-
- Mr Gibson has already mentioned the "dark forces"
that are at work and it is
- exremely likely that the "discussion" requested
by the Rabbi and the
- layman (read: ADLcorporate lawyer) is the beginning of
the Talmudic
- offensive...albeit shady and subversive.
-
- There is another article on your site that connects to
another site
- where one has the 'opportunity' to discuss online: the
Babylonian Talmud
- with Rabbis and the owner of the website. I believe it
was linked by
- John Kaminski's 'Spiritual Gangsters'. Is this a coincidence??
-
- Quite suddenly, we will find that 'they' will USE the
Jewishness of Jesus
- as a Semitic tool of defense and attempt to firstly pacify,
then appease,
- and then indoctrinate Christians with the "WE ALL
BELONG TOGETHER" philosophy
- and a "it's just a form of textual misunderstanding"
that separates them from the
- Christians. The 'Talmuddies' have 1971 years of "Devils
Advocate" discussion and
- process argument...Christians have only their belief
in the words of both Testaments as they were
- originally offered to them...notwithstanding interference
by the clergy.
-
- I think Pope John Paul realises this and that the differences
that he has with Mel Gibson over Catholicism will be exploited by "THEM".
Divide and Conquer scenario...The Foxmans of this world are running scared.
-
- World population: 6,000,000,000
- Jewish Population: 14,000,000 which equals (calculator
please) =0.23333% or less than a quarter of one percent of the people on
the planet.
-
- Probably, the good Jews who want no part of "Foxman's
Hell on Earth" policy will number over 13 million and these are the
people that "The Passion" is NOT directed against. That is the
real rationale for Foxman's Fury.
-
- I seek no vengeance...just truth
-
- Kieth Norman (WelshBrit)
- Canada
-
- Give me one good reason why I should convert and become
a
Christian - and maybe I will
-
- By Joel Bainerman
- isratech@netvision.net.il
- 2-11-4
-
- ZICHRON YAACOV, Israel -- Life isn't easy as a Jewish
alternative writer. The world of alternative literature is swarming with
all type of people who aren't fond of anything Jewish- particularly the
Jewish religion.
-
- But that is where I come in. You see, I am not only a
Jewish alternative writer and thinker- I also consider myself an observant
Jew- in that I observe the sanctity of the Shabbat day (no work, travel,
TV or getting drunk/stoned) and Judaism's dietary laws. While no Rabbi,
I learn as much as I can- from Jewish texts such as the Talmud, the Mishnah,
and Pirke Avot. I make it my business to study these texts- to learn what
they are saying- and what others generations before I came into the world
before the late 1950s thought about the same issues. My connection to Judaism
and to these texts are not based on "conspiracy theories about Jews
or Judaism" but rather- the authors of the texts- and how they have
been interpreted throughout the past 200o years. Unlike many of the alternative
writers out there who like to pontificate about how evil Torah Judaism
is- I live it and can read the texts and literature they are based on.
- I doubt whether even one of my non-Jewish fellow alternative
writers and thinkers who call Torah and Talmud "vile" and "evil"
have ever actually studied these texts. Have any of you? So how come so
many of you (and believe me, no need for names, everyone who publishes
essays and commentaries on the Internet on these subjects know who they
are and everyone who doesn't knows who they are as well) take the view
that Torah Judaism is evil, that "Pharisees" are running this
"Torah/Talmud conspiracy" and that for that reason- Judaism (what
they call, "Pharisee Judaism) is a product of the Devil?
- To this day, I can't figure out what these people are
looking at when they point a finger at Torah and Talmud. I read these texts-
and know what is in them- just like any other learned Jew. So who are they
trying to fool?
-
- Everyone it seems- yet they will have trouble convincing
me of the veracity of their claims. I live in the world of thought and
literature they are condemning. Some of my closest companions in this world
are Jews who dress in black, have sideburns, and would be called, "Pharisee
Jews", or "Talmudic Jews". Yes somehow I am supposed to
believe that these people are practicing some sort of diabolical, satanic
belief system which "Pharisee/Talmudic Judaism" teaches.
-
- Tell me, if so, do Yossi and Yithzak, my two learning
partners in the Yeshiva (Jewish seminary) that I attend classes at, know
they are practicing a "satanic theology" or are they part of
this Jewish conspiracy by "Talmudic Jews" to keep the Gentiles
enslaved? Which is it? Are the million or so religious Jews in the world
all ignorant as to what they are studying- or are all of us part of the
grand conspiracy? Are we all following a "satanic, Talmudic/Pharisee"
religion- and yet don't realize it? Or do we and are therefore are consciously
all part of this gigantic "Talmudic conspiracy" to "enslave
the Gentile world?"
-
- Another big problem I have is that many alternative researchers
and thinkers who publish essays and commentaries on the Internet are Christians
or Hebrew Christians- Jews who have converted to Christianity. At every
opportunity- these people try and convince me how wrong I am for not adopting
Christianity and admitting that Judaism is "Talmudic" and therefore-
evil.
-
- They try and convince me that I am making a big mistake
by not acknowledging Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, and if I refuse, they
tell me things such as, "I am being manipulated by Pharisee Jews"
or that I was "blinding my self to the evil of the Talmud and "Pharisee
Jews."
-
- Let it be known that this Jew is sick and tired of hearing
from Christians and Hebrew Christians how horrible Judaism is, and how
I need to become a Christian- just so that I can be "fulfilled".
The religion that I follow is very fulfilling- spiritually- and in many
other ways and I wouldn't trade it in for a million bucks. I have studied
the basic philosophy behind Christianity and I simply don't buy into the
story. As far as religions go- it is quite superficial. If I was going
to trade in my religion- I would trade it in for Islam before I would Christianity.
I have taken the time to learn what Christianity is and have rejected it.
Have you taken the time and trouble to learn what authentic Judaism is
and what its basic philosophical and theological premises are? If you did-
you would see the same thing I do: knowledge, morals, ethics, and answers
to the big questions of the universe and man's role in it. Not "satan
worship".
- If any Christian or Hebrew Christian would like to carry
on a meaningful dialogue with this Jew on Judaism- and what Judaism stands
for- I welcome it with open arms and encourage you to engage in a sincere
debate. Judaism allows for those who don't become Jews to abide by the
Noahide laws. Does Christianity do the same?
-
- However this debate and dialogue must be done with respect
for the beliefs of my religion- and not distain for it. If you want to
know how Judaism differs from Christianity- and why the vast majority of
religious Jews are not at all attracted to Christianity (I never met a
religious Jews who converted to Christianity) then you will have to listen
with an open mind. Judaism has a much different theological basis than
Christianity- and from my perspective- a much deeper one- philosophically
as well. Religious Jews don't accept Jesus as their Messiah for good reasons-
not because they have been "tricked by their rabbis" or because
they are "blind to the truth" or any other rhetorical nonsense
Christians love to tell Jews. The reason is that religious Jews simply
don't find Christianity a compelling enough religion to cast off their
Jewish beliefs and adopt Christian ones.
-
- While this may be hard for some Christians to accept-
if you want to understand the reasons why us Jews aren't enthralled by
your religion- you better start closing your mouths and opening your ears
and listen to your reasons. If not, don't expect many of us religious Jews
to buy into your claims about "Jesus being the Jewish Messiah"
or that we have to abandon a religion we are perfectly happy with- because
you are telling us, "You know better".
-
- If your arguments are not backed up by convincing proof
as to why a Jew should convert to Christianity- don't expect many of us
to do so. And when we don't- try to understand that the reason why we don't
is that you haven't argued your case very well.
-
- If you would like to convince this Jew why he should
become a Christian- my email address is isratech@netvision.net.il
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